I didn’t vote for Trump, this is not a justification for anything he is doing, this is purely me trying to find any crumb of hope in this abysmal situation.
The country was in decline for at least a decade before Trump took office. So far everything has been a slow boil and we Americans just take it imo.
Maybe Trump will make everything so awful so quickly it will force actual change. Basically we were slowly heating the water and when it turned lukewarm Trump just cranked the heat up to max, maybe the frog realizes this and jumps out.
People forgot what Trump was like 4 years ago and re elected him. So no, it will not facilitate any change.
I like how people think destroying everything will somehow result in a future where people are empathetic.
Agreed; that jackass has pushed me firmly into the “let leopards eat all their faces” camp as opposed to giving a shit WHY they’re so fuckin stupid anymore.
Phoenix?
It’s more about the less people have to lose the more they are willing to risk
When the people end up with nothing left to lose, things tend to get exceptionally shitty for a few generations. Then it’s a die toss to figure out if what comes after that is any better or not.
It’s not really a die toss because the people with power maintain that power and have the most influence in what comes out of that shit-pool. It needs a functional shakeup at the deepest level, and not superficial changes at the surface level to make an effective difference. Otherwise things will just continue to repeat until we destroy ourselves. The problem is that kind of shakeup requires that people remain vigilant and involved for their entire lives, which isn’t going to happen if their only concern is that their own lives are getting disrupted and they want it to go back to par, which is our current standoff.
A Political Compass meme, in a Lemmy post’s comment section?
That’s a legit societal theory called “accelerationism”. Make everything so awful that people will realize what’s happening and instigate massive backlash.
Except… the first time this was tried, in the 30’s, we got WWII instead of solutions. So maybe not that great of an idea after all.
There’s also the social cycle theory. Things always change.
This was first proposed in “The Republic” by Plato writing down Socrates’ arguments.
I feel like the arrows are backwards
It feels that way, but that is correct. Here’s an article that helps to understand a little better. Usually there’s a buffer between Democracy and Monarchy/Tyranny. In the case with Trump, went straight from democracy to Tyranny because they elected a monarch who was also a tyrant.
https://www.history.com/articles/what-are-platos-5-forms-of-government
I thought this when I first looked at it as well, perhaps it is because we are both under the delusion that we are currently in a democracy.
It’s not a theory. It’s a religion; sociopolitical homeopathy. Theories require supporting data and accelerationism has none. It just has people willing to sacrifice the vulnerable on the altar of fascism in the belief that magic will happen causing class consciousness, resulting in utopia, despite all evidence showing that it’s more likely to result in dark ages.
“Nah bro, we just need to let the fascists exterminate one more vulnerable group and the workers will rise up and form my version of a leftist utopia, just one more group, I promise, you just gotta read more theory if you don’t believe me”
I’ve blocked more people on here for their accelerationist bullshit than for anything else. At least the fascists will tell me to my face that they want to see me dead.
I have cystic fibrosis, it’s a genetic disease and my lungs are (were, I got a new set) especially impacted, I thought COVID could possibly change the world for the better for people like me, improved access via remote work or telehealth etc. that people would be more reasonable and understanding to those with lung disease, that the medical sector would start looking more heavily into lung health, lung rehabilitation, the issues around lung disease and immune-disregulation etc. but really very little has happened and there’s been no significant permanent changes and people chose to keep denying illness and disability exist… I think the virus of the trump presidency running through the US will have the same negative effect where a lot of people die and not much else happens
I’m disabled too. By far the biggest issue for me is other people’s reactions to it
My wife is disabled in a not-immediately-visible way and our experience is similar. Had one old friendship ruined because he decided she was lazy for not trying to diet her issues away.
Ugh, your wife and me both. “Have you tried meditation? Fasting? Maybe just push through the pain?”
Pushing through the pain is why my desk jockey ass is currently recovering from a surgery rarely performed on non-athletes. At least all the hospital documentation promises that I can start competitive play within a year or so. Upgrade!
Thought this would happen the first time, woke up to him winning again.
Shit needs to get a lot worse before it gets better apparently
Nah. Accelerationism is pure bunk with exactly zero evidence supporting it. Things getting worse just makes it harder to make them better.
Except, you know, most of human history. Can’t overthrow an evil regime if there isn’t one.
Thanks for saying it. People on here really seem to think this is the first fascist regime in history.
Did any of those countries become particularly high quality places to live after the fascist regimes fell (compared to peer countries that didn’t go through a fascist phase)?
If the answer is “no, Italy and Germany and so on are not particularly notable compared to their neighbors”, then it sounds to me like accelerationism is bunk, and what you get after fascism is more-or-less what you would have had anyway if all that suffering had been avoided.
We like to believe that every dark cloud has a silver lining, that what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger, that everything is happening according to some plan or pattern that’ll all make it work out in the end, etc, etc. Sometimes that’s true, but often times its not. Sometimes bad things happen that didn’t need to happen, for no good reason, and people get hurt and die and nothing good comes of it. That’s life. Sometimes its ugly and there’s no point to what happens.
You should read some US history if you think that is going to happen.
At best there will be slight improvement for a couple decades while nobody in the administration or who helped to destroy the government suffers any consequences and they just do it all over again.
Have you read U.S. history?
Despite the land of freedom hype, we started as a country where only land owning white men could vote, and slavery was law. As flawed as things are now (and there will always be a need to improve and fight injustice) slavery has been abolished, all men and women can vote, child labor abolished, 40 hour work week, gay marriage legal.
We should be realistic and honest about the bad things happening right now. But if we don’t believe it’s possible for things to get better (doomerism) then it’s much less likely they will, and believing that ignores the actual historical evidence.
As flawed as things are now (and there will always be a need to improve and fight injustice) slavery has been abolished,
Except in prisons
all men and women can vote,
Except for the ones who can’t because of felonies that are arbitrarily decided to be disqualifying.
child labor abolished,
Except for family businesses, and if you haven’t noticed Republicans are bringing child labor back.
40 hour work week,
Except for exempt employees.
gay marriage legal.
Conservatives are working on getting this overturned just like they overturned Roe v Wade.
Yeah, we aren’t as shitty as we were 250 years ago but the gains we have made in those centuries is pretty fucking basic. We still have massive problems and Republicans and their half of the voting population are working turelessly to bring back the absolute worst things.
Yes, I have read history.
OP said “maybe something good will come out of this” and you said look at history, the best that will happen is some minor temporary improvement. I pointed out several significant long lasting advances. I don’t see where anything you said here disproves that.
As I said, yes, there are significant problems we need to address. But being negative to the point of denying reality isn’t some act of resistance, it’s capitulation. Telling people there’s no hope helps the enemy.
slavery has been abolished
Took a civil war
all men and women can vote
Not all and women voting took violent riots to come to be
child labor abolished
40 hour work week
People died in gun battles against the government and hired guns to get these
gay marriage legal
It’s legal but easy to take away, and also took violent riots
I’ll quote my reply to the other person:
OP said “maybe something good will come out of this” and you said look at history, the best that will happen is some minor temporary improvement. I pointed out several significant long lasting advances. I don’t see where anything you said here disproves that.
As I said, yes, there are significant problems we need to address. But being negative to the point of denying reality isn’t some act of resistance, it’s capitulation. Telling people there’s no hope helps the enemy.
slavery has been abolished
[citation needed]
all men and women can vote
[citation needed]
child labor abolished
[citation needed]
40 hour work week
[citation needed]
gay marriage legal
[citation needed]
I mean, gay marriage is legal at least for now
Are you sure? Legal means it has to be legal everywhere, otherwise you can just get the same treatment eg.: doctors get for providing abortion. Nowadays, that means you can get ICEd by an out-of-state order.
[citation needed]
[citation needed]
It’s called observing reality. For example, gay marriage is illegal in several states, slavery only got legalized to ~40 hrs a week, incarcerated men and women are deprived the right to vote, etc.
Come on it’s not that hard.
You seem to have missed the humorous intent of my comment
Nothing in the text indicated humor.
I don’t think this will happen
this is purely me trying to find any crumb of hope in this abysmal situation
Yes, I was pointing out why you shouldn’t try to convince yourself to think that there is any possible chance of a positive coming out of this.
If the Reagan administration’s legacy is any indication, no, no it won’t. Things will continue being fucked and getting worse decades from now.
Thats called “Accelerationism” and its stupid, as history keeps proving
If you are looking for silver linings, just look at the positive political effect trump is having in other countries, such as Australia and Canada :)
We barely rejected the right wing nuts, and they could easily take the next election. While relief is warranted, we should not be smug or complacent about it, either. Lies more faster than the truth, it’s still an uphill battle for morality and decency.
As a Canadian, I’m relieved the conservatives didn’t win the election but I would have rather preferred the NDP win. A lot of people like myself really wanted to vote NDP but voted liberal out of fear of vote-splitting leading to a conservative win. We’ve forsaken the left wing party to stave off the right wing party.
one of the main silver linings before his 2nd term was that he was destroying the gop from within while hes ranting and riling up his base, and attacking any gop not supporting him.
But there also countries where trump inspired and popularized far-right parties
Yes but I’m trying to find positives for the OP, not negatives 🤫
This post breaks literally rules #1, #2 and #3 of this community. Crazy.
Mods please wake up and DO YOUR JOB.
“Let the OrphanGrindingMachine cook,” he said to the crowd.
TBH it does feel like more Orphans need to be crushed before the normie gets radicalized enough for action
Reading these responses is so sad. I can see that a large number of people on here have fully embraced cynicism and active pessimism. This is the most damaging attitude possible when trying to create change. If you have this mindset, you’re not only not helping to make positive change, you’re actively working to drain any energy from those who might be in a better and more productive place than you.
To the OP, don’t give up hope. There are thousands of people around the country working right now to change things and resist the downfall of our country in whatever ways they can. The number is growing every day with each new outrage and attack, and energy is building quickly. If you can’t donate your time, donate your money to progressive organizations (look up the 50501 project for help finding them).
Nothing is going to change with blind optimism, but history is on our side, and it shows that when things start to hurt for people in their day to day lives, real change is possible. This is not the first fascist takeover in history, and it won’t be the last. Some older folks have literally lived through similar times in our own country (see: McCarthyism for example). Nothing is inevitable and no one can predict the future, no matter how believable their claims may sound.
To the cynics, you’re absolutely allowed to feel how you feel. I feel quite cynical myself a lot of the time, too. Just remember that when you mock and shout down people trying to move forward, you help create the future you’re so resigned to. Not all of us are so ready to roll over and take it. If you won’t help, please at least get out of the way.
/soapbox
There’s so much negativity here… Don’t let it take away your hope.
Things are looking really bad right now, yeah, but losing hope only ensures misery.
“Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.”
I understand your perspective and agree that it would be best to do the following.
But you gotta understand how it feels for most Millennials.
What’s not included in this meme are: USA’s Unjustified involvement in two Middle East countries with our armed forces and bombs, 1 Trillion dollars collectively “spent” on those two involvements, “Resurfacing” of mass racism, Mass false news/information, The never ending inflation of everything, and the lie that if we all went to college and got a degree, that everything would be alright later on. (Let me know if I missed any.)
So yes, giving up hope is not wise. But nor is letting us live our lives as if this isn’t some of the most corrupt, asinine, ‘fight amongst yourselves while we the ultra rich keep taking from you in any way we can,’ period of time.
I definitely feel that pain. I was lucky enough to buy a house, but that’s all I’ve got going for me. Otherwise I’m just paycheck to paycheck, living every single day on the verge of losing everything.
I hate it, but I believe in us.
Yeah there is, I get it though. I’ve noticed that in myself I have a much shorter fuse now. I try not to take it out on people because I recognize it’s just misplaced frustration.
Part of the reason I made this post was to just let people get all of their vitriol and upset feelings out, if even a little.
It’s of course not helpful to shout in the void but it also alleviates some of that frustration people feel. I thought it may be a bit therapeutic to give strangers a little spot to direct some of that negativity to.
Thank you for the kind words and your quotation perfectly sums up the response I’m trying to maintain in my mind, if only for my own sanity.
There’s three ways to get rid of cancer:
- Poison it. Diminish its numbers to the point where it never comes back.
- Excise it. Cut it away from the rest of the host.
- Do nothing. It’ll die once it consumes the host.
Eating granola and berries or sitting there with hopes and praying for change is option 3. I’m on team option 1. Time to get active.
I’m on team Option 2
I’m on team Option Whatever the hell is quickest.
Same here! I’m a lot more comfortable operating a guillotine rather than a gas-chamber.
Option 3.5: Palliative care or euthanasia.
