- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- world@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- world@lemmy.world
Many international fans visiting the US for the World Cup have become frustrated by the culture of tipping servers, telling the BBC that tipping fatigue has set in.
England supporter Geoff Pryor said he understood tipping for good service, but he found it “weird” when buying a bottle of water and “they try to get a tip for doing nothing”.
In the US, staff at some restaurants and bars are paid just over $2 (£1.50) an hour, and they expect customers to tip about 20% of the total cost of the bill so they can earn a living.
Frustrations have also been shared by hospitality staff, with one bar owner telling the BBC that many World Cup tourists have been bad tippers.
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This is why no one should ever visit the States for holidays. Lots of better countries to go that don’t have this bullshit.
This shit is being pushed so much that I’m starting to think it’s just more culture wars shit to keep sowing division between people
Or… And hear me out…
America is a genuinely corrupt and exploitative country that your own society perpetuates by allowing these oppressive standards on your fellow low wage citizens to continue to be the norm.
Or, you know…
‘No Way to Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens
I’m an American. I love my country, and I’m proud to call myself a patriot.
Unfortunately, you’re right.
I just want people to know that there are genuinely good people here. There are countless kind, generous, and decent Americans, and there are so many things about this country that are worth loving.
My wife wasn’t born here. She’s only lived in the United States for about three or four years, and she has very strong opinions about our culture, society, and politics. I keep telling her that she arrived at one of the worst moments in recent American history.
I hate that this is the version of America the rest of the world is seeing. I know we’re capable of being better than this, and I hope one day we’ll prove it.
To everyone watching from abroad: I’m sorry. I wish we were showing you the best of America instead of the worst.
“I keep telling her that she arrived at one of the worst moments in recent American history.”
The whole thing around tipping in restaurants and bars has been a thing for decades in America.
Yes but I was responding to the comment above not to the post itself… 🤷
Or… And hear me out
Let’s not generalize 345 million people.
Your comment is morally defensible, yet on Lemmy and Reddit, saying “don’t generalize an entire country’s population” often gets heavily downvoted. Years ago, I was even permanently banned from r/Ukraine for arguing that ordinary Russians shouldn’t be demonized because of the actions of their government.
I suspect this is driven by a mix of factors: nationalism, prejudice, the emotional impact of war, and the tendency to view conflicts in terms of collective guilt. When people are angry or grieving, nuance is often the first casualty.
It absolutely is. Trump created the July 2025 law “No Tax on Tips.”
There should never be an incentive for someone to work hard. The incentive is the paycheck. If they give bad service you fire them, every other scenario should be they are paid fairly and the customer leaves happy because they got good service.
“We need at-will employment to ensure good service”
“We need to allow tips to ensure good service” Naw the tips are there so they can list lower prices than you’re going to pay.
Exactly. Like every other job, poor work performance should be handled by feedback and clear targets, with dismissal used as a last resort.
Nobody should be forced to give fake smiles to appease awful customers in order to not starve.
I never tip, unless i received exceptional service.
Then again i only eat out at venues where I pay up front or self serve, or in places so posch - I actually WANT to tip the staff for providing an outstanding experience.
On the rare occation I am in a venue where tipping is expected and service and experience are not phenomenal I do not tip and happily send any staff to fuck right off if approached - that sort of establishment SHOULD go under.
You suck for not tipping people who are paid in tips.
Yeah, pay a livable salary and fuck off with begging for money.
Tell that to the owner and not the staff.
It is not the owner’s fault, it is everyone as a nation, accepting the practice and blaming customers.
It’s very much also the owners. Outsourcing your staff’s salaries to the customer while being able to advertise cheaper prices is an incredible deal for them while dropping all of the responsibility on the customers.
The customers end up paying the extra however you slice it. Be it tips, a non optional gratuity, or baked into the price. Most restaurant margins are surprisingly low, its not like theyre being greedy and hoarding the ‘extra’ money that would otherwise go to servers salary.
The tip passing direct from the customer to the staff prevents it from being taxed 2x, (both sales and income dont get charged on tips) you’d be adding an extra 10% or more on top of the 20% if you moved to to a baked in cost.
You guys are always so worried about your taxes. With the current administration I can see why, I guess. We’re not asking to not pay what we owe, we’re just asking that what we owe be transparent, like in a civilised country.
You are only harming workers and are an asshole if you withhold tips.
Why do you give the employer a pass and blame the customer?
I don’t get the employer a pass. But I live in a reality of tipped wages and have had a job like that before. I have solidarity with those workers by helping the make a livelihood. Me not tipping only benefits me and the owner. Not the laborer. It is immoral to withhold the money earned
The employer is the one withholding the money earned, the customer is simply paying the price that is advertised. The employer is the one that is exploiting the cheap labor, and if the labor looks to the customer to fix it it’s not going to work out.
You fight the system by fighting the system, not punishing people who are even more vulnerable to the cruelty of the system.
Employers paying shitty wages are punishing workers, this is the source of your complaint. If workers got a fair wage to begin with, you wouldn’t give a shit about tipping. But employers pay a shit wage and have successfully got people like you to blame and shame customers instead of them. If you think this will resolve by arguing with the customers that aren’t subsiding the wages, well, good luck with that.
Cool story. Good way to have solidarity with workers
Pay your staff properly
No, you suck for accepting and perpetuating a culture where it is necessary. Do the right thing and refuse to go along with it. Insist that all staff are paid livable wages. Petition your state to force the issue if necessary.
Yes because me not tipping is going to end the system. Not tipping only benefits me and the owner. The staff is fucked. Only assholes think their individual lack of tipping with change a system. Systematic change requires a system to change.
You suck for living in a nation that allows employers to use tips to make up a half decent wage.
Yes I have a choice in that matter. I live in a reality of tipped wages and I have solidarity with the people who labor under it
That’s not solidarity in terms of labour. It’s just accepting the status quo, while doing a lip service to the people affected. If you really want to show solidarity, join a union and participate in collective action to improve the working conditions. The more people a union has, the stronger it can get. Worker rights in Europe didn’t come out of the good hearts of politicians or companies.
You fight the system by fighting the system, not punishing people who are even more vulnerable to the cruelty of the system.
Then join a union.
I’m literally in the IWW
Actual clown take
I have solidarity with the people who labor under the system.
I have only read the comments here. I see employers are not paying minimum wages is the problem here.
If minimum wages were paid tipping or not tipping is a question of good service and appreciation and not a question of survival.
Place the blame on the business owners who refuse to pay fair wages to employees. This is a criminal act and customer not tipping is just a question of social politeness.
Minimum wage isn’t enough to live off of in any city.
How many times is this shit going to get reposted?
deleted by creator
All you can do is refuse to tip in solidarity with the workers.
No service worker appreciates that crap.
Maybe but their boss appreciates customers handling performance bonuses a lot more.
And apparently in the US they don’t even have to pay them minimum wage so it’s a win/win for management getting to treat their staff like slaves.
Actually no, in most places management DOESNT like it when that happens. If the worker doesn’t get enough tips to make minimum wage they have to pay them that wage.
Put it this way, if they have only had to pay a worker $20 a night for so long it’s almost part of their budget. If all of a sudden they have to pay double or even triple that (or more depending on the state) they they have to cough up way more money than they want and that eats into their pockets.
Don’t get me wrong it sucks for the service worker. Now they are making 1/3 or what they usually do or worse. But it’s not a performance review and the boss isn’t happy about it.
The tipping culture is stupid here and it needs to end, but I would hate to do it on the backs of hard-working people.
If the worker doesn’t get enough tips to make minimum wage they have to pay them that wage.
So you can admit that it’s just subsidizing management but still think tipping isn’t to benefit them.
So you admit they do have to pay minimum wage? (Clearly a foolish way to make a point)
Take what is said and don’t change the message. Doing that weakens your argument.
To your point yes and no. It does NOT subsidize MANAGMENT, if puts money in the pockets of the owner. Clearly you are a fool because you make a point and ignore the specific example that helps your argument. “They don’t like it because they have to then pay the minimum wage.”
You clearly ignore everything I have said and missed the message. It does not benefit management. It benefits the owner.
So you admit they do have to pay minimum wage?
Yes, I took what you said as correct.
I see management as an arm of the bourgeoisie, not as an ally to the proletariat.
As such
. It does not benefit management. It benefits the owner.
This is a distinction without a difference.
Then you are a fool. Managers in these places make about $5 an hour more but do not get tips. Meaning they make less in general and are doing the job of two. Clearly you don’t understand anything about the situation. Stop making an argument you know nothing about because you didn’t even know the rules about minimum wage here.
Ultimately, you are correct.
You’re also probably being downvoted by service workers who rely on tips to earn a living.
That’s the double-edged sword. Almost nobody likes tipping, and most people would prefer a system where workers are simply paid a fair wage. The reality, however, is that tipping currently makes up a substantial portion of the income for millions of people.
The only way to eliminate tipping is for people to stop participating in the system altogether, forcing businesses to adopt a different compensation model.
The unfortunate part is that the transition wouldn’t be painless. Until those businesses adapt, a very large number of workers would bear the cost, putting them at a significant financial disadvantage.
Go fuck yourself.
I remember long ago someone broke down the math for me and it became simple. If the bill is $53.27, for example, then 10% is $5.33, just by moving the decimal over one spot. A quick estimate tells me half of that is $2.50 (5 halved) + $0.15 (33 is close to 30 and that halved), so $2.65-ish. Add them together and 15% is close to $8. 20% is that initial $5.33 doubled to $10.66. Roughly between that is my tip on average service, probably rounded.
… Is that weird written out like that?
no, what’s weird is tipping in the first place. tipping shouldn’t be a fucking thing period
and don’t come at me with the “servers need to make money” then the fucking business should pay them a living wage. if your business can’t survive with paying your employees a living wage, then they don’t deserve to exist. that’s capitalism.
I’m not defending tipping. The business should pay them a livable wage. But if I’m going to go out to eat, which I have occasionally done, I’m not going to lecture the server about capitalism. They’re relying on tips. They get it.
Damn, you’re grumpy, huh?
who said anything giving shit to the servers? the solution to getting rid of tipping culture is to support unions, fair pay, and not going to restaurants that won’t pay their employees. the restaurant owners make it a you vs the server issue. if you don’t tip then the server blames you the customer instead of their boss, and you the customer are upset at the server for being guilted into tipping instead of being upset at the restaurant for not paying the server properly. the solution you can do right now? stop going to restaurants.
i didn’t fucking hire the server, why the hell am i responsible for their pay? i don’t tip the bank teller, or the retail worker.
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Let’s fix this headline.
American’s Confused By Fair Wage Practices of Civilized Countries
The article could start like this:
Some Americans, more specifically those from the socalled “United States”, are confused by fair wages and other basic social norms on civilized countries.
Ci… Civ… Civ-il… Civil-i? Civil-iz? Civil rights? CIVIL RIGHTS COUNTRIES?! Does your country’s ICE know about this???
If there’s a problem, yo, they’ll solve it. Institutionalized racism, no laws to resolve it. ICE ICE baby
Really putting that vanilla in the ICE
Which American?
You know who! It’s the American with the Confused. He owns it!
Frustrations have also been shared by hospitality staff, with one bar owner telling the BBC that many World Cup tourists have been bad tippers.
Should read:
Frustrations have also been shared by hospitality staff, with one bar owner telling the BBC that many World Cup tourists have been making staff aware that I and other businesses are bad employers.
And he is.
Making others aware? (commendable)
or
A bad employer? (not so commendable)
Yeah, why’s the bar owner being quoted in a paragraph about the frustrations of hospitality staff? He’s the one not paying them a fair wage and expecting the customers to subsidize his payroll!
Well if you travel to the US for the World Cup you’re either ignorant as fuck or you like the direction they’re going and want to sponsor it.
You chose to go. Stay and suffer or leave and get better.
Or maybe they like football?
I like cocaine but I’m not going to hang out in rural Colombia anytime soon.
You can like football and not support america and FIFA’s blatant corruption.
This is Lemmy sir, only extremes are allowed here.
Fuck you for having hobbies, you should 110% dedicate yourself to fighting foreign country at any cost!
We don’t pay our workers, lol. That’s on you!
It is completely out of control. I have been asked to tip at self operated vending machines. WTF?
That’s because vending machines aren’t actually paid at all and rely entirely on tips. Little known fact.
Damn. What a heartless bastard I am.
Stop being a robophobe
Clankist.
Genius.
They’re unconfigured PoS systems. Look at all the different PoS solutions out there. You never know where or when to tap your credit card, hit yes before or after the transaction is initiated. It’s generally smaller vendors not configuring non-out-of-the-box solutions. Simple as that.
Kinda weird that US culture tends to demonize handouts, yet handouts in the shape of tips are expected and you’re a bad person for not providing them.
Aha, but the great old USA love to think it’s a meritocracy, and since tipping is something that was originally merit based, it’s a very American expression. You work a little harder, you get a little extra.
But also, in a uniquely American way, capitalism turned tipping a moral dilemma.
Also, tipping is a way to legalize paying marginalized groups less. It enables a system where young attractive White people make more money for the same work.
Handouts are accepted based solely upon how much money you make.
If you’re poor? You’re a leech on society.
If you’re rich? You clearly know money and you’ll obviously invest that back into the economy and it’ll trickle down to the poor people any minute now.
Handouts to people are demonized.
Handouts to companies are perfectly fine.
Tips get a pass because everyone (at least instinctively) understands it is benefiting the company more than the people officially receiving it.
The price on the menu isn’t anywhere near the bill the expect you to pay at the end.
Bill = menu-price + taxes + 20% tip
(where 20% is just a rough average)
These days I’ve seen people trying to push 30% to 40% as the minimum tip. Either that or they sneak it in with service charges or gratuity fees with a suggestion of a 25% tip on top.
These days I’ve seen people trying to push 30% to 40% as the minimum tip.
I’ve seen that, too, and it’s INCREDIBLY sleazy.
It’s been sleazy for a while, the automatically calculated tips almost always calculate the tip on the total including tax. Wtf…we’re expected to tip the government now, too?
When I notice this I recalculate and don’t return
Fuck that, those people are psychos. It’s not going to catch on.
[fetch.jpg]
Unfortunately it’s catching on, and if you read half the comments here you will find people backing it up because the poor workers won’t be paid any other way almost as if restaurant workers weren’t paid another way in the past.
Well I’m still gonna tip 20% and if they think that’s not high enough then they can cry about it cause next time I’ll tip them 15%.
If they want 25% then they’d better give fucking exceptional service, and I don’t just mean being polite yet insincere and using all the tired robotic phrases that they’re programmed to do in OJT. I know “cookie-cutter waiter response” when I hear one.
If they want higher than 25% then they can fucking blow me…
I’m still pinned at 15% although I mainly stay out of the country somewhere where tipping is what it used to be aka totally optional and highly appreciated. Tipping everywhere even 5% would be very strange behavior here.
