• BeigeAgenda@lemmy.ca
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    14 days ago

    The joke/stereotype answer is that: Americans don’t have time for that, they need to hustle else they get fired from their fourth job.

    I think one part of why the general strike has been postponed is that USA is more like 50 different countries. And that even if it’s bad now, and getting worse by the day, the pain threshold is still not being reached for enough people.

    And I am sure there’s much better answers than mine.

    • jontree255@lemmy.world
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      14 days ago

      The pain threshold is not definitely not high enough to get the average American to risk everything.

      I also think most people are waiting for the election to solve problems. Which is stupid, I know, but like I said in my post having a bunch of people breaking into stores and destroying property right now will just boost Trump. Right now he’s fucking floundering and extremely unpopular.

      If we’re gonna have mass protests it needs to be after the election when he tries to deny results.

      • PlaidBaron@lemmy.world
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        14 days ago

        Literally every time this is brought up one of the top answers is ‘its not a good time to act’. When will it be a good time to act?

        • jontree255@lemmy.world
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          14 days ago

          When he tries to deny or overturn the results of elections from 50 separate states (again) because he’s a whiny crybaby removed and most Americans are sick of his shit?

          Did you not read the first part of my comment when I said the pain threshold isn’t high enough?

          Did you forget my other comment (that you bookmarked) where I said people ARE acting every day to resist ICE?

          • Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            14 days ago

            PlaidBaron is right though, why all the downvotes?

            You think you’ll all rise up after an event that already happened once, that is delusional IMO.

            I don’t have a perfect answer to your mess, but I don’t think waiting is the answer.

            Good luck, you need it.

                • jontree255@lemmy.world
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                  14 days ago

                  Believe me I do too. I’ve said for a while it’s going to take a lot of pain to snap the average American out of acceptance. Right now things are just uncomfortable for most. I don’t know what the threshold is but I suspect we’ll hit it before 2028.

        • Uriel238 [all pronouns]@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          14 days ago

          We are acting. It’s just diffuse and not loud. And, granted, it may not be enough.

          For now the focus is on the election, to get the opposition party in power, to reform the opposition party away from neoliberalism, to plan to, for the next two years hold accountable everyone in the political class and plutocratic class who engaged in corruption and self dealing.

          The fight doesn’t end there. We still need to rebalance the federal powers. We still need to make anew the regulatory bodies, to reforge international relations and rethink our role in the world, to create social safety nets, to reconsider our national security model… the list is long, and the problems that need addressing have been around since before Trump, just as the problems that beleaguere Europe have been festering for a while.

          The question is if we can confront the disproportionate power of the patrician class and business interests though the political system. The preponderance of data centers disrupting neighborhoods, and of officials who have signed NDAs shows us the corruption is entrenched even at the local level.

          The American people need to organize twelve million strong under a common manifesto. If we can do thatn there are several options open to us, violent or otherwise (though we are erring towards non-violent) that will disrupt industry and overwhelm responders, and leverage the American economy against moneyed interests. And we’ll need to have a clear set of demands when we do it.

        • WappleFF27@feddit.online
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          14 days ago

          As someone who isn’t even rallying calls to action, but simply suggesting that people exercise the second amendment and get involved in their community, and having those ideas rejected?

          Literal mad max scenario.

          • PlaidBaron@lemmy.world
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            14 days ago

            Me? I never said anything about the second ammendment. I know you Americans are gun happy but thats not what I said.

            • JasonDJ@lemmy.zip
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              14 days ago

              We’ve just learned from the Civil Rights movement…

              Black men and women tried exercising their First Amendment rights, but nobody listened until they exercised their Second Amendment rights.

            • WappleFF27@feddit.online
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              14 days ago

              You were asking when the time for action would be.

              I’m telling you americans will never act.

              • PlaidBaron@lemmy.world
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                14 days ago

                Ah got it. Sorry. There are many angry Americans on this thread who are not happy with my opinions. Which is fine. They have that right. But they seem to think they can just make any dissenters shut up with the I dont like this button and liberal use of ad hominem attacks.

                Godspeed my friend.

    • rbb36@lemmy.world
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      14 days ago

      they need to hustle else they get fired from their fourth job.

      The problem is; wait another year and it’ll be, “get fired from their fifth job.” Alas; getting to that point, enough times, is what it takes. Once there is no time left, and no money left, and no food left, and the littles are too listless even to cry.

      Get to that point a few times (eg: 1789, 1848, 1968), and you start choosing to stand in the tear gas early.

    • Nalivai@lemmy.world
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      14 days ago

      If it’s that much of a 50 different countries, why one of those “countries” didn’t organize the “country”-wide strike even once?

  • /home/pineapplelover@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    14 days ago

    Well we had No Kings protests. Police have shot and killed our citizens in the process of that. In my area, during a protest, police grabbed, dragged, and shot a protestor point blank in the eye with a less than lethal gun (he’s blind now)

    • Napster153@lemmy.world
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      14 days ago

      Yeah, and the freedom people who once frothed at the mouth about wanting to fight tyrants are now probably the ones shooting protestors happily now.

      All for the tribe.

    • chiliedogg@lemmy.world
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      14 days ago

      We had a similar per capita rate of participation in No Kings as France has had in its recent demonstrations. But the US has a much lower population density over a much larger land area, so the protests appeared smaller despite having millions more people in the streets.

      • nullify3112@lemmy.world
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        13 days ago

        I would argue that No Kings protest will never achieve the goals french protesters are because No Kings refuses to use a wider diversity of tactics. You can’t force someone to the negotiating table without force. Sit ins, speeches and tweets won’t make the Republican party any less fascist.

    • Nalivai@lemmy.world
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      14 days ago

      Yeah, that’s the thing about a protest, it doesn’t help unless you have a structure to harness this energy. When police started shooting at protesters in Ukraine in 2014, several political and activist organisations banded together with people, and together they used this fear and anger to resist and ultimately win.

      • /home/pineapplelover@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        14 days ago

        Well political activist organizations were already banded together going to No Kings protests when those citizens were shot, for some reason we’re not winning yet

        • Nalivai@lemmy.world
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          13 days ago

          I am very plugged in on the American politics, and yet I have no idea which ones you can mean. This means that either those organisations are small enough so they don’t even break the local social media barrier, or they were so quiet after that, they didn’t even try to do anything on any public level.
          Two people were executed on the streets by the regime, and the reaction was less severe than when a shitty musician was shitty.

          • Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
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            13 days ago

            its likely its too small to even get bigger in the news, also because conservatives controls most of the MSM as well, it will hit the news, its all “look what trump did that make him look stupid” gaffe everyday.

            i noticed after the protests, people just went home like no news after that, they treat it like they were working a shift a store, 8hrs here, 8 hrs there and then done. also these are Planned protests, so you get what you “paid for” and likely kept on a tight leash by the DNC and MSMs to not escalate further. it allows them to have release valve when something schumer-hakeems and congrees does something terrible voting with the GOP.

            • UnequalExchange@lemmy.world
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              13 days ago

              exactly. These peaceful protests rarely ever substantiate substantial changes. The literal largest per capita protest in american history didnt do shit.

              What does this tell the americans?

                • Nalivai@lemmy.world
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                  12 days ago

                  And maybe, protests do very little in America because ruling class aren’t afraid of the public that much

    • Matty Roses@lemmy.librarysocialism.social
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      13 days ago

      “guys, we went on a permitted march in favor of slightly less shitty authoritarian neoliberals, what more do you want?”

      Nobody was shot and killed for No Kings. What the people were shot and killed by ICE for was direct action of rapid response against ICE.

      • UnequalExchange@lemmy.world
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        13 days ago

        “If your oppressors approved of the ‘protest’ ? Congratulations. I hope you enjoyed your parade” 😂🥳

    • Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
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      13 days ago

      the point is there is no escalation from us protestors when that happened, Occupy wallstreet pretty much showed oligarchs have nothing to be worried about, they can shovel culture war into social media its enough to distract people.

    • Hubi@feddit.org
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      13 days ago

      And people have lost their eyes protesting the redesign of a train station here in Germany. Clashes with law enforcement are to be expected when you protest the government. You don’t tuck in your tail because of that.

    • PlaidBaron@lemmy.world
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      14 days ago

      Why are trailer parks always the example for when something looks like shit? Im genuinely asking. Trailer parks where I live arent bad at all. Im not saying they look like mansions but people generally take care of them and make an effort to keep their property looking nice.

  • jontree255@lemmy.world
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    14 days ago

    Please show this meme to the people of Minnesota, Rene Goode’s family, Alex Pretti’s family, that kid who lost his eye, and the people who are following ICE around daily to prevent them from kidnapping people.

    Doing a protest like the ones in France right now, two weeks before our midterms, would be very stupid and probably boost Trump and the GOP.

    Now, when they try to steal the election and nothing gets done you can complain, but I don’t think that’s gonna happen.

    • stylusmobilus@aussie.zone
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      14 days ago

      No they can’t complain, there’ll just be another wall of excuses and when they aren’t accepted, personal attacks, unless you’re Canadian then you’ll get your arse kissed because the threat is real from them.

    • Miaou@jlai.lu
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      14 days ago

      Lol because you resisted so hard in 2024. It’s not easy to overthrow your government, but stop pretending the threshold for doing so wasn’t crossed

      • jontree255@lemmy.world
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        14 days ago

        Not sure what you’re getting at here. Trump won in 2024. Just like Joe Biden won in 2020. Except when Trump won there wasn’t a mob smearing shit on the Capitol walls because they didn’t like the outcome.

        I don’t buy any conspiracy theory that Elon changed votes in 2024 or whatever bullshit people are using to cope with the fact that Americans are fucking stupid and Biden was a colossal fuckup.

    • Arcanepotato@crazypeople.online
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      14 days ago

      Please show this meme to the people of Minnesota, Rene Goode’s family, Alex Pretti’s family, that kid who lost his eye, and the people who are following ICE around daily to prevent them from kidnapping people.

      This meme isn’t about them and it’s incredible that this is your argument.

      • jontree255@lemmy.world
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        14 days ago

        This meme is about how Americans are lazy and aren’t doing anything or haven’t done anything to resist or outright overthrow their fascist government. So yeah I’d say those people are relevant.

          • jontree255@lemmy.world
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            14 days ago

            I’m saying this meme ignores their sacrifices becuase it lumps all Americans into the fat lazy group when they are the clear exceptions. And again, people are still out there doing the work.

            I don’t use them as a shield. They’re motivation for me to do better.

          • LilB0kChoy@reddthat.com
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            14 days ago

            Is the image from OP generalizing entire countries?

            Maybe both you and OP are bad actors who are looking to drive division and infighting amongst people over what is clearly a global problem.

            Or maybe you’re just a smug asshole and part of the problem? But hey, why not knock down and demean others to make yourself feel big and righteous, behave no better than the emboldened fascist fucks.

                • Arcanepotato@crazypeople.online
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                  14 days ago

                  I see. So when I tell someone if they aren’t doing the thing in the meme the meme isn’t about them I will also add “and that’s why you are such a good person”.

                  Deal, but only if we get a chapter on why shame and revenge are poison and how lessons from prison abolitionists can help them be even gooder people.

  • SwingingTheLamp@piefed.zip
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    14 days ago

    This criticism would hit so much harder if, say, the people of France would do something about the hard right, but, oh look, Marine Le Pen can run for president again? Sounds familiar.

    • LilB0kChoy@reddthat.com
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      14 days ago

      I agree with your sentiment but knock it the fuck off. Those protesting in France and those protesting and fighting back how they can in the US are n the same team.

      As are many people here and around the world. Let’s acknowledge and uplift each other when we’re all striving for the same goal. You can still call out people who are building themselves up by denigrating others but don’t do it by behaving the same way.

      • SwingingTheLamp@piefed.zip
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        14 days ago

        Yes, that is my point, too. Notice how the excuses start to fly when I apply the same (warranted) criticisms to other countries that so many non-Americans lob at the U.S. It doesn’t feel good, and doesn’t help anything, does it? Everybody should knock it off, and work together instead of basking in self-righteousness.

        • LilB0kChoy@reddthat.com
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          14 days ago

          Notice how the excuses start to fly when I apply the same (warranted) criticisms to other countries that so many non-Americans lob at the U.S.

          You mean when you engage in whataboutism?

          Yes, that is my point, too.

          Really shitty way to make it by feeding right back into it. Notice I didn’t have to do that to make the point?

          It doesn’t feel good,

          I’m not from France. I just saw an American acting like an ass and decided, as an American as well, to call it out.

          and doesn’t help anything, does it?

          Nope, yet you fucking did it anyway?

          Everybody should knock it off, and work together instead of basking in self-righteousness.

          How did you not drown in the irony typing this out?

            • LilB0kChoy@reddthat.com
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              12 days ago

              Sorry you decided you feel like you had to act like an ass too. Seems to be a real problem with Americans these days.

              You should pick better role models.

      • PlaidBaron@lemmy.world
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        14 days ago

        I hear you but its hard when so many Americans are so resistant to any criticism in the first place. Its very hard to build solidarity with people who dont want to see what they might be doing wrong.

      • JustEnoughDucks@feddit.nl
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        14 days ago

        And this happened in the US too, except 5 million people, not thousands.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Kings_protests

        We here in the EU love to shit on Americans because they are stupid. We are just as fucking stupid or even stupider because we are repeating the exact same mistakes less than 2 years after America broadcasted theirs.

        Here in the EU, literally exactly the same thing is happening. Corporate sponsored fascism. It is all in our Parliament and Comission at around 26% representation (chat control, fascist policies, even gaming holidays with racist tricks like “must be an overwhelming majority against to NOT pass, while everyone is on holiday”).

        Italy is controlled by a fascist party, luckily the Dutch fascists just lost control because they did such a spectacularly bad job, Germany and Belgium fascists are reaching almost a quarter general support, Austria has fascists winning a plurality, Croatia, Czechia, Slovakia, all have fascists in the controlling governments.

        France’s fascist party with Le Pen literally has more support in France that America’s MAGA fascists.

        France is the only one doing anything as far as actual protests, and they are getting shit on by every country’s media the exact same, even the 90% identical talking points as how American media shit on BLM and No Kings protests.

    • Arcanepotato@crazypeople.online
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      14 days ago

      What should they do about Le Pen? Protests the courts that overturned the ruling that restricted her from running for 5 years or simply not vote for her?

  • Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works
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    14 days ago

    These threads are full of useful idiots and propagandists shitting on Americans.

    I’m so bored by this nonsense. At least get more clever if you’re going to try to divide all of us.

    The way I see it, we’re all in this together. Even the Russian people are my ally if they oppose fascism and corruption. These are my people… All people who want a better world.

    But sure, enjoy your indulgences if this thread is your thing. May your lives be as short as Trump’s should be.

        • TheMinister@sh.itjust.works
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          13 days ago

          No I wouldn’t say the Russian people are the enemy either. But their autocratic government invading Ukraine aren’t exactly high on my list of potential allies.

          It’s not the Russian people that were fighting, but we should be fighting autocracy wherever it happens to be, and it happens to be in Russia. Being allies isn’t like being sister cities. Our autocratic govt is in bed with their autocratic govt.

          • that were fighting,

            Sorry, what trench in Ukraine are you posting from?

            but we should be fighting autocracy wherever it happens to be, and it happens to be in Russia

            Are you American? Because your country is currently engaged in war crimes, and you can fight it plenty well from there.

      • zoloftt@lemmy.world
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        13 days ago

        My guy It’s about the people being against fascism, not the governments of those people.

          • zoloftt@lemmy.world
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            13 days ago

            I’m surprised everyday by what my fellow US Americans want. I imagine it’s not much different than what propaganda the average russian citizen believes.

            There are people in both countries that know what empathy is, and understand they’re being lied to though.

            • ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net
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              Yes, USA and Russia are similar. Trump won 2 times in USA same as Putin won couple of fair elections before they stopped being fair. Both USA and Russia are full of bloodthirsty, racist people that believe they live in the greatest country in the world. It’s not an accident that brutal dictators raised to power there. It’s a direct expression of the desires of their citizens. Only when the oppression starts to affect them personally they begin to see the light.

        • myyass@lemmy.world
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          12 days ago

          Adding to your post, the protesting, this is a classic idea everyone has. Have you ever lived there, then shut the fuck up. Because in places like this you have to shut the fuck up. You can have an opinion to yourself otherwise you’re going to the front line.

        • UnequalExchange@lemmy.world
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          13 days ago

          the biggest lie ever told.

          People always say 'belgh blehg blerg bleg governement ≠ belgh blehg blerg vleg people . People have gotta stop spoiuting this bullshit line cause Im too tored of it. Carlin said it once:

          "Now, there’s one thing you might have noticed I don’t complain about: politicians. Everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says they suck. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They don’t fall out of the sky. They don’t pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses and American universities, and they are elected by American citizens. This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It’s what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out. If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you’re going to get selfish, ignorant leaders. Term limits ain’t going to do any good; you’re just going to end up with a brand new bunch of selfish, ignorant Americans. So, maybe, maybe, maybe, it’s not the politicians who suck. Maybe something else sucks around here… like, the public. Yeah, the public sucks. There’s a nice campaign slogan for somebody: 'The Public Sucks. Fck Hope. Because if it is really just the fault of the politicians then where are all the other bright people of conscience? Where are all the bright, honest, intelligent Americans ready to step in and save the nation and lead the way? We don’t have people like that in this country. Everybody’s at the mall, scratchin’ his ass, pickin’ his nose, takin’ his credit card out of his fanny pack and buyin’ a pair of sneakers with lights in them. So, I have solved this little political dilemma for myself in a very simple way. On Election Day, I stay home. I don’t vote. Fck ’em! Fck ’em! I don’t vote. Two reasons. Two reasons I don’t vote. First of all, it’s meaningless. This country was bought and sold and paid for a long time ago. This shit they shuffle around every four years? Pfft! Pfft! It doesn’t mean a fcking thing. And secondly, I don’t vote because I believe if you vote you have no right to complain. People like to twist that around, I know. They say, ‘Well, if you don’t vote you have no right to complain.’ But where’s the logic in that? If you vote and you elect dishonest, incompetent people and they get into office and screw everything up, well, you are responsible for what they have done. You caused the problem. You voted them in. You have no right to complain. I, on the other hand…who did not vote…who did not vote…who, in fact, did not even leave the house on Election Day, am in no way responsible for what these people have done and have every right to complain as loud as I want about the mess you created that I had nothing to do with. So, I know that a little later on this year you’re gunna have another one of those really swell presidential elections that you like so much [Bill Clinton v. Bob Dole]. You enjoy yourselves; it’ll be a lot of fun. I’m sure as soon as the election is over your country will improve immediately. As for me, I’ll be home on that day, doing essentially the same thing as you. The only difference is, when I get finished jerking it, I’m gunna have a little something to show for it, folks.” – George Carlin  

          These are Russians and Ukranians from Russian and Ukranianian homes, businesses, schools, soldiers who instead of just saying “Fuck it” and conscientiously objecting in jail in the millions and millions together in brother and sister hood choose to do their fucking parastic removed biddings . How long do you think this war would go on for if only the politicians threw their bloody parasrtic asses at each other? … I heard the same said anout the needless Iran-Lebanon-Yemen war…

          Heck even the last surviving WWI veteran talked about this: He said something along fhe lines of: “I still feel about the war now as I did then, that I wished that these fucking politicoans were the omes who picked up the guns and artilerry and blew up each other.”

          The Common People outnumber the politicians, the billionaires , the bribed mercenary class traiitor pigs in the hundreds and even thousands. The Common People can clearly ALWAYS come together and absolutely de-fucking-molish the fuxk out of all these war mongerers and create numerous societies that are created by the Common People and work for The Common People, Societies That Works For The Workers !..

          …The people choose not to do this… Every second …of everyday… Why they choose not to do this? Meh! Ive asked a couple and its always bullshit reasons here and there. Heck, Ive met some people who acrually enjoy being exploited like this.

          The people indeed ARE their government . The people at any moment could substantiate substantial effort to permenanently change their society for the better , to substantially change society to favor them and our hard work . We have the dream , we have the hands , we have the numbers… but we dont have the courage (or even the thinking capacity it seems) . Instead we would rather just be complacent and let these parasites throw us at each other in needless air raids and invasions or shoot at each other over a couple thousand dollars in random gang wars here and there…

          Fuck outta here with this garbage line.

    • UnequalExchange@lemmy.world
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      13 days ago

      …ook…and now what are you americans doing for your allies? …

      and on a side note I find it odd that the Russians havent rebelled violently against Poo-tin. Its Loooong overdue. Dude’s a nearly useless goof.

    • blackshirt@lemmy.world
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      13 days ago

      At least get more clever if you’re going to try to divide all of us.

      Is the opposite is the goal? reunite US against the empire?

    • Martti@suppo.fi
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      13 days ago

      “Russian people” speaking language of russian propaganda? Im russian in some sense, so can you tell me how our society is fighting fascism (the democratic republic protecting its own soverignity you mean? Because they used to have 1 seat in the parliament for one fascist). Or maybee because of CIA helping Yeltsin save his power and eventually put bunch of oligarchs with Putin as a president. And now having a war because militarists can profit from it , and it is just fun for a brainrot dictator. Never mentioning cooperating with corpocracies like china and vietnam, that disappear their people for attempting to create independent workers union.

      You see, it is hard to not fall into pit of idealization and polarization, meaning, instead of having nuanced socialist view, you prefer tankies that were quite popular at the time. And you are likely american so you have no idea what post-war consensus was. But you might know Chile before CIA-assisted coup.

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    14 days ago

    At least one of those shots is behind a permanent spiked perimeter fence that you get arrested or shot for crossing. Also Trump keeps moving the White House temporary perimeter fence back further from the White House. I need to check if the Capitol Building is currently fenced off

  • PlasticExistence@lemmy.world
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    14 days ago

    The key context to the USA’s relative passitivity with protesting is that we can easily lose our jobs for one of several reasons (none good) if we go protest AND that almost certainly will mean we will also lose our healthcare insurance.

    The average person cannot weather an extra expense of only a few hundred dollars, has no savings, and borrowing money in that position usually leads to a debt trap where you’re continually punished for being in a temporary bad spot.

    And that’s before we consider what cops and ICE are like here. They’ll just straight up murder us without consequences.

    I get that the world is frustrated with us, but I also get that the world fails to grasp how much more desperate things have to get here in order to overcome the hurdles put in front of us.

      • PlaidBaron@lemmy.world
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        14 days ago

        Community engagement has been slowly and deliberately eroded by both government and corporate interests.

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          14 days ago

          Social Media is especially insidious. They want to drive everyone online into a space they can control and monitor.

      • faythofdragons@piefed.social
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        14 days ago

        Define mutual aid. My local group has been recently focused on bolstering the local food bank, since we found out the state funding was getting stuck in the urban area and not making it to the (largely immigrant) communities of people who cant afford to live in the city.

        The local food bank is entirely volunteer driven, they only have a facebook page, and no way to accept donations online. It directs people to mail a check, but most people just venmo the urban food bank and assume the money will come our way eventually.

        Due to lack of funding, they don’t even have refrigeration, and thus can’t accept fresh produce donations from the local farms or community gardens.

        Here in a few weeks, we’re planning a big donation drive and awareness campaign about the lopsided funding structure, and county council has been invited to hear us talk about implementing a more decentralized food distribution system.

        Opinions on the fediverse seem to think this is just more ineffective shitlib harm reduction nonsense, and we shouldn’t be wasting our time on it. I want to know why they don’t want us delivering food boxes to neighbors targeted by ICE.

        • Arcanepotato@crazypeople.online
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          14 days ago

          I’m not saying that your plan is bad or wrong but it’s not necessarily mutual aid.

          What you are describing is one way aid, unless I am jumping to conclusions about the people who are organizing it. The problem with one way aid or charity is that it doesn’t build parallel systems to protect people when the state takes away things they depend on. This is why it’s not an effective support for direct action. If the people supplying the aid get scared or they lose their privilege, the aid stops.

          I’m going to use strike support as an example. Striking workers may get strike pay, but it’s not enough to live off. They depend on the support of friends, family and other workers who are not on strike to meet their needs so that they can continue to strike until a fair(er?) deal is made. The idea is that when these people are back at work they can support another group who is striking.

          In a more general example, I am a gardener. I can take my time to teach others how to garden. I can share my seeds and my produce. Maybe my neighbor can put aside his raked leaves for me to mulch my beds with? It might be easier to think of mutual aid as an informal economy where the goal is to distribute resources and knowledge for the purpose of making sure people are taken care of vs profiting. IRL my neighbor has offered his front lawn for more growing space, but I haven’t been able to take him up on it because poor health has stopped me from using all the land I have already. He can’t spare the time or labour to help rn but I know our produce delights him so I’m not going withholding it because I’m not getting anything in exchange.

          Seettu is another example although it’s not a static thing and different applications may be closer or further from mutual aid than others.

          I hope this helps.

          Good luck with your food drive.

          • faythofdragons@piefed.social
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            14 days ago

            It might be easier to think of mutual aid as an informal economy where the goal is to distribute resources and knowledge for the purpose of making sure people are taken care of vs profiting.

            How is that not what I’m describing though? We want to break away from the formal system, that has failed us, and set up a parallel system of localized support.

            I fail to see how bidding on a pot of money is more closely aligned with mutual aid than helping your neighbors distribute produce from the community garden.

            • Arcanepotato@crazypeople.online
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              14 days ago

              How is that not what I’m describing though? We want to break away from the formal system, that has failed us, and set up a parallel system of localized support.

              Again, maybe I am not understanding the details.

              Are the people who are providing the food/funding/organization realistically likely to depend on this system in the future? I think it’s more important that they understand that they are building a system they will also rely on vs any “there but for the grace of god I go” type thought.

              If so, then it’s mutual aid. If instead the parallel system depends on people with no connection to the need, it’s charity.

              I fail to see how bidding on a pot of mone

              I knew that wasn’t the best article but I didn’t want to depend on my own second hand experience to describe it because I am not Tamil.

              The bid example didn’t include uses like the author describes in the beginning:

              He depended on Seettu to meet emergency needs: when his wife and children arrived after he sponsored them, he used the money from Seettu to fund their settlement expenses.

              It’s pooling money to be dispersed for the good of the community in the manner the community decides. It’s not perfect of course.

              I’m getting too wordy here I think but the key idea is that in order for it to be mutual aid, all involved must be building a system they themselves rely on. That removes the power of the state to cut it off by threatening the most privileged.

              • faythofdragons@piefed.social
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                14 days ago

                Are the people who are providing the food/funding/organization realistically likely to depend on this system in the future?

                Yes? Who else would care enough?

                • Arcanepotato@crazypeople.online
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                  14 days ago

                  Maybe I’m wrong but I thought charity was commonly used for tax benefits? Also shame. People donate to avoid looking to closely at themselves. And some people just realise they have more than they need.

                  I participate in charity, I don’t think it’s the worst thing although I understand the criticisms. If the choices are stretch myself further beyond my current capacity or auto donations to a rent bank I’m going to pick the donations.

                  I haven’t seen the criticisms you received so I can’t guess at what their issue was. Perhaps they were just starting shit.

      • BeardededSquidward@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        13 days ago

        I’ve tried with local people I know and can vet that aren’t MAGAts. No one was interested. We have an insane level of individualistic thinking in this country.

        • the_q@piefed.social
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          14 days ago

          It’s even easier to only care about any of this when it starts effecting you.

          • PlasticExistence@lemmy.world
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            14 days ago

            That’s a nice assumption you’ve got there, but you know fuck all about what I’ve been doing for the last ten years.

            Enjoy your distance from the problem and the arrogance of assuming you’d do better.

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              14 days ago

              How sad to be putting in effort and have nothing to show for it beyond a chip on your shoulder. Holding a sign at your legally allowed “protest” for 10 years must be exhausting!

              • PlasticExistence@lemmy.world
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                14 days ago

                Go fuck yourself. Sitting on the sidelines sneering at other is most certainly tedious and exhausting.

                What would you do, tough guy? You wanna come and defeat all the baddies single-handedly?

    • Fishy@lemmy.world
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      14 days ago

      Do you think other countries subsidise protesting? Yes your healthcare makes you all less free. Isn’t that worth protesting more? While I may be committing a false dichotomy it sounds like the choice is effective (economic) slavery or protesting.

      • PlasticExistence@lemmy.world
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        14 days ago

        That is not the choice we face. Disruptive protesting gets you killed in this country unless you’re “protesting” for fascism.

        I do think other countries risk less when they protest, yes.

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          14 days ago

          Ah yes, the Arab spring was famous for being low risk. Nobody died or risked their lives at all.

          Jesus, this does not help the stereotype of Americans being ignorant as fuck about the world.

          • PlasticExistence@lemmy.world
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            14 days ago

            That’s a strawman argument. The Arabs were united enough to succeed.

            Jesus, this does not help the stereotype of the angry internet commenter upon whom nuance and understanding are lost.

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              14 days ago

              Look. You use whatever excuses you need to cope with the situation. But at the end of the day, you better get used to living under a dictatorship because thats where you’ll be.

              • NaibofTabr@infosec.pub
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                14 days ago

                “Do what I tell you to do, or you’re just making excuses! There couldn’t possibly be other real factors that affect peoples’ lives that I haven’t considered!”

              • PlasticExistence@lemmy.world
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                14 days ago

                Man, how astute and useful. Do you think this won you the argument?

                The fact is you all want to see one thing: for all those guns Americans own to be turned on each other. If you think that you’re advocating for anything else - or if you think there will be any other outcome - I don’t know what to tell you.

                It’s real fucking easy to wag your finger and say, “Just do X!” as though we’d never thought of that!

                Get a clue and understand that you don’t understand.

            • Fishy@lemmy.world
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              14 days ago

              I said other countries above, but obviously there are different levels. Western Europe isn’t at that stage yet (but you could argue the current situation in Europe doesn’t warrant such extreme protests yet and they would if it was warranted). But some of the protests in, for example, Georgia (the country) over the last few years, are probably on that level and with good reason. And they should be respected—which you are not doing with those types of comments

              • Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                14 days ago

                Could be relevant if anyone had been talking about Georgia or it was in the meme. The only non-Western European country in there is Serbia, and it’s not Eastern European, it’s Southeastern European along with Greece et al.

                • Fishy@lemmy.world
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                  14 days ago

                  Deleted my previous comment about 3 min after posting, wrote too quickly and missed point. Take 2.

                  Mate, this doesn’t show just Western Europe + Serbia. Albania is there too. I’m sorry that this memetic content does not satisfy certain implicit criteria you seem to have about generalising to the certain regions of Europe—ie those which have been protesting more than the last few weeks. And given all that, I have no idea what your point is. Protests that have had significant impact on people’s daily lives through protesting are not just during the Arabic spring but there are modern examples in Europe. If you agree with that, then what’s the discussion about?

            • PlaidBaron@lemmy.world
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              14 days ago

              He said other countries. Not Europe. Dont be obtuse. If he meant Europe he should have said that or he has no consideration for how vast the world is or how dangerous it is for people elsewhere. Either way, its an ignorant statement.

      • zoloftt@lemmy.world
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        14 days ago

        Ah yes, measuring against standards from 200 years ago. Classic way to do things. Literally.

        • Hapankaali@lemmy.world
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          14 days ago

          I suppose one could also measure against current standards in France, Spain, Albania and Serbia.

          It doesn’t make any sense to say that people should first have to be comfortable and secure before they can protest. If Americans had the standard of living of a prosperous country, they wouldn’t need to protest.

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            14 days ago

            Sure but your comment was a reply that was about the ALMOST 1800s.

            Also, I already commented a link about the No Kings protests earlier in this post.

            • Hapankaali@lemmy.world
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              14 days ago

              Sure but your comment was a reply that was about the ALMOST 1800s.

              So? People had to take shits in 1789, doesn’t mean they can just stop going now even though that was a long time ago.

              Also, I already commented a link about the No Kings protests earlier in this post.

              So which is it? Americans don’t protest significantly because they don’t have health care covered for protesting, or they do, and the No Kings protests are an example?

              It’s obviously neither of these. Americans don’t protest against the government much because a) things simply haven’t gotten bad enough and b) Americans are indoctrinated into believing the US is the richest country in the world and simply don’t know how far the US economy has fallen behind the most prosperous countries in the world.

  • Formfiller@lemmy.world
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    13 days ago

    BS Americans were getting shot execution style protesting ice. Do we need more protest and civil disobedience? YES but this is garbage

    • UnequalExchange@lemmy.world
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      10 days ago

      Ewww civil disobedience?!

      “Nobody should self-immolate for Gaza. Symbolic acts only have an effect when your enemies are humans and ours are not . Instead if youre already sure you want out, you should… ??? idf veterans in your local area.”

      You think symbolic acts of civil disobedience will make a difference? Actually , you know what? I want the americans to keep on and keep on doing it. Ha! Theyre already doing this and they did it during the Civil Rights riots (my favorite part of the Civil Rights Riots were how nowadays non-White americams are still NOT treated like humans and STILL not reparated). Let us see what changes for for the americans in the next 50 years… 🍿🤭

        • UnequalExchange@lemmy.world
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          13 days ago

          …ok… and now let us watch as the Serbian bourgeoisie install ANOTHER dictator. Or install a placeholder who gives the Serbian people a few treats here and there and then their successor … takes all those treats away 🤭🍿😏

  • Doom@lemmy.world
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    14 days ago

    No way our white house currently looks that nice. 1/3 of it is a deconstruction pit, the roses are a concrete slab, and did they ever actually fix the grass after turning the front lawn into a mud pit for trash coin?

    • UnequalExchange@lemmy.world
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      13 days ago

      …and it acheived fucking nothing haha

      Once again proving that non-violent resistance aint shit. The Algerians, Cubans , Koreans , Burkinabe, and Vietnamese send their regards

      • boonhet@sopuli.xyz
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        13 days ago

        The Cubans are escaping to Florida instead of revolting, Korea has had multiple visibly corrupt presidents and I still haven’t heard of violent protests… Not sure those are the best examples.

        • UnequalExchange@lemmy.world
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          13 days ago

          …Ah Yup yup yup every excuse in the book.

          Instead of talking about Cubans from 1959 …you talk about Cubans today. Bro IDGAF abou Cubans today. Bro Cuba is no longer a socialist state. Have you seen the rrforms? Have you seen the oil embargos effects on Cuba since 2 years ago up until today? Clearly you havent so why am I even asking?

          Instead of talking about Koreans from 1910-53 …you talk about SOUTH KOREA TODAY …when Im talking ALL of the Korean Penninsula from decades ago.

          BUT Yup yup yup! Keep up the excuses . Never use historicals examples to give you directions as to what the americams should do today YUP YUP YUP.

          • Martti@suppo.fi
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            13 days ago

            As if these regimes were not totalitarian from beginning and did not serve imperialist interests of soviet pseudosocialism. Protecting the spirit of revolution to eventually become corpocracy that is even stronger capitalist than the capitalist-democratic counterparts.

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            Bro IDGAF abou Cubans today.

            Well that’s a bit racist, isn’t it

            Bro Cuba is no longer a socialist state. Have you seen the rrforms? Have you seen the oil embargos effects on Cuba since 2 years ago up until today? Clearly you havent so why am I even asking?

            Oh, the oil embargos of the last 2 years are the reason Cubans have been fleeing Cuba for decades, got it. Not fleeing the dictatorship (instead of revolting against it).

            Instead of talking about Koreans from 1910-53 …you talk about SOUTH KOREA TODAY …when Im talking ALL of the Korean Penninsula from decades ago.

            Did they revolt against the Japanese, or did Japan lose the war? I was under the impression they only managed to kick the oppressors out because the oppressors got two nukes dropped on them. By the Americans ironically enough.

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              11 days ago

              ok but why have Cubans been fleeing for decades? You dont think sanctions exist?

              Also what ‘dictatorship’ ? The ‘dictatorship’ that the majority of Cubans came out in solidarity with during the COVID-19 lockdowns? Seems like an odd ‘dictatorship’ if the majority of Cubans are happily accepting ALL THOSE sanctions just to shout out their support for it in the middle of a pandemic 🤷🏿‍♂️

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    14 days ago

    On average, how long does it take a European to travel to their capital city, either driving or public transit? How long does it take an American to reach DC?

    Are European capitals generally the center of population?

    • neatchee@piefed.social
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      14 days ago

      Maximum travel time to the Capitol for each country by the lesser of car or train:

      Albania 4.5 – 5.5 hours (by car)

      Serbia 4 – 4.5 hours (by car)

      Spain ~3.5 – 4.5 hours (via AVE high-speed rail)

      France ~4.5 – 6.5 hours (via TGV high-speed rail)

      United States 43 – 46 hours (by car, excludes Alaska and Hawaii)

        • neatchee@piefed.social
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          14 days ago

          Even people inside the US have a poor concept of just how big it is.

          Like, only India, Russia, and to a lesser degree China compare to the US in terms of livable land area. After that is Brazil at less than half.

          I honestly don’t think it’s a coincidence that the four countries with the largest liveable area have a serious authoritarian leadership problem right now.

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        13 days ago

        Trying to organize in the capitol is a nightmare. I think we’re better off pressuring governors and state officials more than trying to focus on the national level.

        • neatchee@piefed.social
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          12 days ago

          If we don’t cause discomfort for the federal representatives, I’m afraid they will just call it a local problem much as they’ve done with the No Kings protests up to this point

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            12 days ago

            I see it as two folds, get the local governments to deny and defy Trump then take it to the capitol. It’d be harder to ignore if states are supporting this. But the images show riots and I don’t think it’d be easy to get the numbers in DC to really snarl things up without prior organization. Trump was only able to do it because the Democrats are pathetically weak.

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              12 days ago

              You’re not wrong, but I think you might overestimate the number of states where anything like this could actually happen. It would be spun as a “leftist rebellion” and they’d send in the militia fuckers with glee IMO

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                11 days ago

                They’d do it with any rioting or similar in DC. We’re in a position people are being killed by the regime and will continue to be, and I think we should have a few states backing up counter movements in some way. The 2021 insurrection was able to get away with it because the regime was still in control at that point to let it happen.

                • neatchee@piefed.social
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                  11 days ago

                  It’s relatively easy to go after each of 20 independent 1 million person protests one at a time. It’s comparatively difficult to deal with 20 million people in the capitol

    • Nalivai@lemmy.world
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      14 days ago

      “Damn, I would resist the tyranical government, but not if it takes me more than couple of hours to get there. My hands are tied, I could never get to the government building in time.” But then again, you guys didn’t vote that one time because you didn’t know how to buy stamps and googling it was the whole thing, so I get it.

      • shiftymccool@piefed.ca
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        13 days ago

        couple of hours to get there

        Wow, people are always so quick to point out how bad Americans are at world geography then say stupid shit like this. Get a map

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          13 days ago

          Oh, that’s unfair. Americans aren’t just bad at geography, they’re also shit at reading comprehension, but thanks for the demonstration.

          • shiftymccool@piefed.ca
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            13 days ago

            I asked a European friend to take a look. Nope, you’re still the idiot. Get a map and try your “couple of hours” from anywhere outside of DC and report back

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              12 days ago

              That’s just precious. You’re unable to comprehend a single sentence, and you’re doubling down on that.

    • PlaidBaron@lemmy.world
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      14 days ago

      More ‘we cant do anything because xyz’ arguments. There are protests outside of Paris. Here in Canada, an infintely sparser population, the railroads were shut down over the pipeline in 2020. We literally saw store shelves here on the east coast get emptier because the trains werent running.

      Are Americans lacking any and all imagination that all they can think of doing is non-disruptive protests?

      Dont get me wrong, Im sure there is creative action happening down there but my god all the comments are full of excuses.

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        12 days ago

        Americans are trained through 12 years of public education to become docile if or when they protest.

        The only characters of the Civil Rights movement that are mentioned in public school are MLK and Rosa Parks.

        Practically no mention of Malcom. Everything I learned of the Black Panthers through my public school career, was from watching Forest Gump. BLA? Fannie Lou Hamer? The Deacons for Defense & Justice? Never heard of 'em.

        Obviously pacifism is the way to get your message across, right?

        Except it fell on deaf ears until black men and women started showing up armed.

        (And that, boys and girls, was the start of the gun control movement).

        Fuck…I only know the story of The Hurricane because of Bob Dylan.

        • BeardededSquidward@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          13 days ago

          Thanks to the NRA and Ronald Reagan for essentially leading the charge. Save for some gun laws, most are racist intentions to keep marginalized communities weak and unarmed for easier subjugation.

        • Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
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          13 days ago

          also black people in general are heavily stereotyped, so people would be indoctrinated not to trust AA figures in history. they think the fantasized version of ghandi was the method of resistance, his own family was anything but peaceful to get thier way at least until the late 70s in India.

  • Bristlecone@lemmy.world
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    13 days ago

    The thing about America is, for every person who cares, there are 3 idiots with guns who would love to be the next Kyle Rittenhouse. They aren’t even all republikkkans. Just boot lickers with a murder fantasy

      • Bristlecone@lemmy.world
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        12 days ago

        I’ll admit it, I’m fuckin afraid of my neighbors in a red state. I’m afraid of my own fuckin parents. They are violent, brainwashed sociopaths with guns. Without a movement to hide in just gonna wind up dead in the street. Call me a coward, but it’s a fine line between cowardice and stupidity. If I wasn’t married, I’m certain I would have thrown my life away on it already.

    • foggianism@lemmy.world
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      13 days ago

      No it begins in the large cities when a critical mass of people don’t want to abide by the given rules anymore instead they want to write their own.