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Voters: Can pick between fascism and no fascism
Voters: “Hmm I will not vote”
Lets be real. The non voters are to blame and they deserve project 2025
Democrats sit here and use memes to beat themselves up over being such a shit bunch of losers and Republicans would have claimed victory even if Trump lost and very likely would have had their followers shooting guns about it. Yeah there’s a disconnect somewhere.
Idk, rightwingers made the argument that they are under no commitment to certify if they think there was funny business.
Almost as if they are doing it on purpose and are just the more culturally liberal of the two Wall Street parties… 🤔🤔
Someone like AOC and Bernie will never be allowed anywhere near actual power. God damn money.
and even if they did get in power, they’d still support NATO and imperialism in general, still support capitalist exploitation, and still would only pay lip service to or fight symptoms of systemic issues instead of ripping the cause that is capitalism out by it’s root
Ooo that got downvoted. All for saying “Fuck America” until NATO is stated, then it’s “Actually, America is holy and great.”
Not one of you clowns has any actionable idea.
If you had made any honest attempt to look into socialist politics, you’d know that there are a lot of actionable ideas there
Oh we do, you just don’t like them.
Revolutionary action is 100% actionable. Always and forever.
Theoretically, but having an actionable idea means to have an idea that you have a plan to put in action. So as always, where is it?
… revolution. That is the idea. We are talking about two completely different things, you expect run-down people to think logically and clearly about something as complex as an alternative*(edit) societal system while actively existing in some of the worst social contexts we’ve seen in decades, while we are talking about acting in such a manner as to free up the cognitive bandwidth necessary to determine what you demand.
It’s like any other toxic relationship, you can’t begin to heal until you’ve exited said relationship.
To clarify, by any means necessary. Start demanding, start opposing, start rallying. Spread the word, keep the reality of things alive in people’s awareness, because the natural instinct is to retreat and deny in order to protect oneself, but that’s exactly the trap the Right sets and then springs for a massive boost in support from downtrodden, desperate people.
Edit to add: the Right and Capitalism, because they both infiltrate and exist by solving problems they themselves create, thus garnering support through necessity.
You can easily look up the answer to your question by yourself: leftist theory, often in the form of books (or even just watching video essays, listening to podcasts etc. etc.)
You can start over on here https://www.marxists.org/
One could argue that there are too many different socialist approaches to revolution or rather that it’s not all that easy finding the correct one to your situation
Additionally, check out the previous revolutions from around the world! Most of them didn’t happen on a basis of theory, but of people determined to change their condition.
Take Romania, for example. Sure, that’s an example of a revolution which ended up replacing one disaster with another, but even that holds a lesson for us: word-of-mouth is king, don’t give into desperation when figuring out the next attempt.
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Cries in Latin-American Spanish
They don’t care about winning. They care about being cool at the right DC cocktail parties,which they have achieved by extracting their own base from the party in favor of a war criminal who left office with 13% approval.
kamala was not pro corporate.
What the actual fuck are you on about
No follower of ideological liberalism knows what the fuck words mean.
Bahahah
Lol, good one mate
only as much as every politician since Clinton
we actually had some monopoly busting action going which is now going to be in the shitter.
The Biden Administration did, she didn’t. She had a bunch of billionaire Tech Bros telling her to drop Lena Khan if she got elected. We know exactly where she was headed.
I actually don’t think we know were that was headed and it sounds like fud to get trump elected.
Monopoly busting is good for the other corporations. Just because a company does anti-consunmer behavior doesn’t mean they aren’t also get screwed by another company’s anti-consumer behaviors.
yeah just like adequate tax and regulation is good for rich folks. thats the thing. not having monopolies is good for society in general.
And this is when you vote for a third party. IMO the mentality of “having to vote one of these two” is toxic for a democratic system.
It’s a trap and these two parties massively profit off of it.
Its the fundamental death of democracy. There is only ever one “correct” choice on the ballot. No real decision except to show up and vote straight ticket or suffer guilt or derision from your peers.
This works just as well on Republicans as Democrats. You don’t see any dark horse Buchanans or Perots on the ballot anymore. Conservatives know any vote for someone other than Trump will be seen as a vote for the Democrat, just like Liberals know the opposite. And when the top of the ticket sucks (as with Hilary in 2016 or Romney in 2012), turnout sags and upsets happen.
The bitter truth Dems can’t face is that they ran bad candidates on weak platforms after disappointing terms in office. And this is what drove down turnout. Not insidious Arabs or nefarious Jill Stein voters or Russia. If they’d had a candidate as appealing to voters as Trump, running on the left side of the ticket, they could have won. Instead, they shed 15M votes chasing the Liz Cheney endorsement.
Bingo
This is cuz of fptp not cuz of parties
The parties enforce and secure fptp from any alternatives, given they massively profit off of it.
I hate that you’re not wrong. Gotta get rid of the current “winner take all” electoral system first though…
Mandatory vote, ranked choice, popular no electoral
Ranked choice was on the ballot in some state and it was voted down
Yeah, people are dumb we get that.
Apparently star is better?
I’m not sure I caught the reference.
STAR voting system
From a glance it seems so yes.
Im with you. If such trap can exist the system is wrongly setup.
That’s not possible in the current electoral system. Therefore voting third party needs to happen first.
Or really, the thing we can’t say in the Internet anymore and the thing that you liberals hate more than the thought of losing capitalism itself.
And this is when you vote for a third party. IMO the mentality of “having to vote one of these two” is toxic for a democratic system.
So close, and yet so far.
The third party isn’t going to save you from the toxic system, nor stand a chance to fix it.
You can’t reform the system, nor fix it from within no matter how hard you participate. It must be completely eradicated from the root.
My understanding is that for third parties to become viable at the presidential they have to have first become viable in other levels of government. A third party presidential candidate should be the culmination of bottom up building, not a once every 4 years thing.
You’re correct. The US third parties have never been acting in good faith, with few exceptions.
The right won. They had more votes because many who voted democrat in 2020 voted red. How does going further left change that outcome?
If voters wanted politicians that are further left then wouldn’t they have voted for the politician that is furthest left?
I think most people just voted republican because they experienced inflation under Biden and dont understand why.
This is factually false. Trump received no more vote really than he did the last 2 times. Dem voters simply stayed home.
It’s not soorts teams. Going further left means reaching rural people and poor people. A lot of the working class just isn’t aware of what left and right mean. If the left let’s republican dictate who is taking those ppl’s side this is how it’s auways gonna end. Posh elitism has failed yet again
There was an election between an independent union leader and a career politician in Nebraska and the career politician won by a landslide. How do you explain that?
The career politician ran a better campaign and lied more believably.
Also not all union leaders are left wing, paradoxically. There are legitimate reasons that Americans distrust unions.
One example does not a rule make, and in the US electoral system money (and the party affiliations that bring it) speaks loudest of all. Maybe going further left wouldn’t work, but going further right certainly hasn’t. When Harris first emerged as the candidate she had such a swell of support, as she moved further right she lost it.
One example does not a rule make
Missouri voted to overturn abortion ban and voted for republicans.
Florida nearly voted for abortion ban and voted for republicans.
Americans have shown they want change but they also don’t understand how that can be achieved.
Apparently Biden/Harris chose not to push ‘make things better’ magical button in the Oval Office so they’re getting the boot and the guy who shat the bed earlier is now getting the opportunity to burn the house down.
Voters are saying it is because of inflation. Not because she didn’t go further left.
Sure, but if she had spent her few months promising to tax the shit out of Elon Musk and other billionaires I bet people would have been more excited and actually showed up to vote than when she promised to keep the course and also appoint a Republican
Harris literally campaigned with a promise to tax the billionaires more.
Billionaires countered her campaign by doing things like literally buying votes.
Now people on lemmy are pretending she never promised to tax billionaires more.
Sorry, I meant she should have been Bernie-style grandstanding about it and hammering it home and making it a core part of her campaign more than it not being in her plans at all. I feel like she started with that kind of message and was doing well and ended with the Cheneys like me and ill put a Republican in my cabinet and lost
And non-voters don’t get to have an opinion or seat at the adults table because they enabled fascism.
Nebraska isn’t a homestead of liberal ideals?
Neither is the entirety of America.
They had more votes because many who voted democrat in 2020 voted red.
Source?
That doesn’t mean what you think it does. The fact that Harris received fewer votes from independents is because they stayed home (as evidenced by the lower turnout), not because they moved to Trump en masse.
Your conclusion also makes very little sense when you consider that Harris already conceded so much to Republicans compared to 2020, i.e. on migration, campaigning with Cheney and even proposing to appoint Republicans in the cabinet.
2020 voter turnout was the highest it has ever been in the history of our country because of the pandemic. We weren’t going to hit those numbers again without another motivator as big as the pandemic.
Thus, fewer votes this year compared to 2020
How does Bernie win again and again then?
He hasnt been able to win outside of Vermont. Even when he lost the primaries he it was because he didn’t have enough votes.
Well he did until the DNC scuttled his momentum with spoilers like Clinton and biden
He didn’t have enough votes before the DNC got involved.
It’s also interesting that the argument here is that the only way Bernie would have had a chance as if there were enough candidates to dilute the vote. But in a straight up head to head contest he couldn’t win. Which is what happened. When the choice came down between Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden the latter got more votes. That’s not a pro Bernie argument. Yet we see it all the time.
