This comic brought to you by the Church of Scientology.
Obligatory - Fuck effexor!
My son has a complicated set of prescriptions that restored him to euthymia after two years of hideous depression. I am so grateful for his cocktail.
These are all generic drugs. No one is winning cruises for writing scripts on the $4 list.
this is anti-treatment propaganda.
this is what lead to the opioid epidemic in the 90’s and 00’s
I disagree.
This is question everything recommendation. Doctors are just people too. They can make mistakes, be out of date, or be corrupt.
But corrupt is very unlikely.
Do research. Read studies. Question. Challenge. And get the best result for yourself in the process.
No but is tho. It takes a dont believe doctors kinda mentality to come up with this fictional scenario.
Ahh yes, better living through modern chemistry.
And medicine as a skill/occupation, if you’ve been around it, isn’t something you “do”. But rather something you practice. I never one “did” medicine to or on any patient I dealt with in 20 years of being an EMT or Medic. I practiced medicine within my scope of practice, (there’s that word again), just like any doctor or nurse.
And when you administer a medication/prescribe to a patient, that’s called a “trial”. Why is it called a “trial”? Be you have no idea what it’s going to do to a patient. You simply go on past collective and professional experiences. And then you hand them a pill and wait to see what it does. It’s going either cure them, do nothing, or it kills them. The 3 True Outcomes.
The first and last options means that you don’t need to deal with the patient again. It’s the middle option, “does nothing” that is a huge problem. That’s when you pull out that bingo card in the cartoon and start trying to get your bingo some other way. And sometimes you even need to hit the blackout to get a bingo. And that’s how you get the cartoon.
I will leave with this wise thought I got at an EMS symposium many years ago. The keynote speaker told us “That no matter how much we think we know about medicine and believe how advanced we’ve become in caring for people, it all still boils down to keeping the patient amused and letting nature take it’s course”.
Nowhere near as real as doctors genuinely believing pseudoscientific bullshit and having it thrive way past the point of disproven efficiency.
Looking at you, homeopathy and psychoanalysis.
Wait, are we really putting psychoanalysis on the same bucket as homeopathy now?
Pretty much. It’s built on unverifiable claims, even Freud’s own case studies ended wrecks, and it!s used today to support shit “diagnoses” like “this kid is autistic because his mother loved him too much”. And there’s all the bullshit coming from the forced proximity with the analyst, like false memories. It is, in many ways, a pseudoscience.
As for what can be determined through actual science, there were huge cross-studies that could not find any benefit to psychoanalytic therapy for treatment of most psychological problems.
Psychoanalysis is not an equivalent term to psychology. It’s only a branch of it, one that shits on experimentation and proof because all the proof you need are in the ravings of an old weirdo from a century ago.
They cover Freud in psychiatry like you cover Satie in music, Picasso in art and Brecht in writing classes. That doesn’t mean that the latest TV shows like Heated Rivalry are cubist versions of Mother Courage set to Gymnopedes. And how much Freud have you actually read and studied at a postgraduate level? Why do you mentioned Freud and not Lacan?
Politely, I think your opinion is under-informed.
They also teach obsolete models of the atom in science so students understand where we’re coming from, but they don’t still use them.
Not in postgraduate. Which the last comment made pretty clear that at high levels, Freud is not seen as a complete fraud, mostly.
I have mixed feelings about Lacan tho but that’s not my real acadmeci position.
No in in postgraduate is looking at old models of anything as absolute truths.
Hey look! He can take her on a cruise too!
Depression is the logical outcome of the system we live under.
I DISAGREE! (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Haha medicine bad anti vax good. You are not like the other people, you are very smart!
i think you’re reading more into this than actually exists in it
Unfortunately that’s just how psychiatry is. You can get a metabolic test done that tells what meds your liver metabolizes better, but ultimately it’s throwing darts and hoping something sticks.
Hot tip, if any of your family members have similar mental heath conditions ask them what meds they’re on. Worked out very well for my partner after trying several drugs she asked what her dad was on and tried that. It worked great
Makes sense genetically
You can just have this tested at most psychiatrists. Genesight is one version, there are a few. If your insurance covers it you basically just have to spit in a cup. If you don’t the cost is capped at $330 for genesight which is a lot. Their argument is that in that case it can still be worthwhile to avoid paying for meds that aren’t a good fit. That said this is a bit absurd as most first line psych meds are dirt cheap. Like fluoxetine is like $25 and you can often get it down to 0 with those prescription card things. If they start you on pristiq or fetzima then it’s way more, hundreds per month, but if your psychiatrist is starting you with those they’ve been corrupted by a pharmaceutical rep
$330 for a genetic sequencing is fucking robbery. The cost to sequence is under $100, a major breakthrough in genetic testing dropped the cost to $80 per sequence. An extremely detailed research-grade sequencing is around $200. The U of Minnesota charges $250 for everything from sequencing to analysis for external screenings
None of these tests have good privacy practices
Amazing how the psychiatrist never mentioned this when none of the drugs were helping
LOL. I found out my aunt was on the same med after being on it for ten years.
It is one of those in the comic.
It’s an entire industry based on anecdotal evidence and we just go along with it.
You don’t know what anecdotal evidence is
Oh? Enlighten me.
Lol you snooty bandwagoners should really read more than just the bits that support your claim. Lol good grief…
Oh my gosh, you really didn’t know the definition! That’s why you don’t have any refutation or argument, and instead you’re having to do this tired “I meant to do that” routine wherein you desperately try to imply there’s somehow more to the question that you’re aware of but we as a group somehow missed, and something that’s so obvious you don’t even need to explain it!
That’s what I’m doing? I had no idea. I thought I was giving you guys the benefit of the doubt and reading your cited definition completely and finding that you picked and chose quotes that supported your claim. But hey why explain myself when you’ll reply with what I really meant…
Active brain scanning with FMRI is still too rarely used in diagnosis and testing for brain related illness.
There’s really good reasons for that, chief among them that BOLD FMRI is basically useless in a clinical setting. “Dowsing for brain activity” was how one PI described it to me.
I didn’t say neurochemistry wasn’t a thing I said that proof of efficacy is based on anecdotal evidence. That is factually correct. I assume you’re one of the roughly 50% that takes an antidepressant and feels better which means you’ll defend the industry even though the other 50% sees no relief.
You know your argument is good when you’re stooping to trying to discredit someone by accusing them of… er… “having medication work for them”
proof of efficacy is based on anecdotal evidence
This is a bad take on so many different levels. Besides the classic “the plural of anecdote is data”, it belies a complete lack of even passing familiarity with how psychopharmacology, psychology and neurochemistry research works.
Oh so you’re not medicated and just have an interest in the psychopharmaceutical industry as a hobby… My bad.
Look, I’m not going to argue with you. I’m very familiar with the process, but you strike me as the type that conveniently omits issues that don’t support your point.
And now you’re trying to discredit my argument because you suppose I’m… not medicated? Man, just not many options left are there.
I’m very familiar with the process
If this were true, it wouldn’t be a very flattering thing to admit; it would mean you have willfully chosen to misrepresent fundamental aspects of multiple extremely important fields, instead of doing it out of simple ignorance. But please rest assured I don’t think that’s the case.
Aaaanyways not that I don’t enjoy taking my rhetorical scattergun on a recreational delve through the deepity depths of a fish-reeking barrel, but this is sorta straying from the topic into petty squabbling. Ta!
Having taken them in the past and watched others taking them; yeah they’re basically chalk capsules. Nothing wrong with chalk, they’re actually a really great way to get someone to start effective treatments and improve their lives.
There’s a reason why you always have to make other lifestyle changes and do therapy alongside the medication in order for it to “work”. And then, after all the lifestyle changes - oh would you look at that - you don’t even need the medication anymore because your depression is cured! Best part is, there isn’t even any withdrawals for some reason! Don’t think about it! But the downside I’ve also seen people take a handful of medications, change nothing, and then get even more depressed because the magic pill isn’t working.
People make fun of organised religion, then pay tithe and pray to the antidepressant and antianxiety God every morning. Go figure.
You’re boldly ignorant.
I don’t understand how a personal experience can be ignorant. Are you calling me a liar?
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Wdym no withdrawal symptoms? Suddenly stopping SSRIs has pretty severe symptoms
It didn’t for me or anybody I know. Maybe the doctor literally just gave us fake pills and everyone else got real pills lol who knows
I thought I was going insane and worried it was permanent when I quit Zoloft cold turkey. I had horrifying flashing images in my minds eye and brain zaps for weeks.
That’s the best case scenario.
The worst case scenario is that it’s mostly placebo, and when it does work, it’s just natural recovery; and, further, that the psychiatrists’ prescription pattern is entirely based on “what’s worked” in their personal history as prescriber which will, of course, be random.
Anyway, long term studies on the effects of most psychotropic drugs indicate that they are much more likely to induce dependence than to actually “cure” you.
The worst case scenario is that it’s mostly placebo, and when it does work, it’s just natural recovery
I believed that for 30 years until I tried zoloft and experienced a sensation somewhat similar to that of psilocybin, which has also been linked to treating depression, and then I went “ohhh…” and stayed on it until the side effects wore off and yeah. It’s not just placebo. I was wrong. I’m sorry to everyone on the internet I misled.
One of many studies concluding, “meh.”
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(19)30366-9/fulltext
Sertraline is unlikely to reduce depressive symptoms within 6 weeks in primary care but we observed improvements in anxiety, quality of life, and self-rated mental health, which are likely to be clinically important. Our findings support the prescription of SSRI antidepressants in a wider group of participants than previously thought, including those with mild to moderate symptoms who do not meet diagnostic criteria for depression or generalised anxiety disorder.
This… doesn’t seem very meh?
That’s actually pretty much spot on how it worked for me. My depression was cause of things in my life, and it didn’t do much for that, but it did wonders for my anxiety, which made it easier for me to ask for help and fix my life. I used to be afraid of going into stores. I used to be afraid of pain, due to pain disorders I have. I couldn’t have caffeine, or even chocolate, because even a little bit of stimulant made me too jittery and feel awful. I don’t have so much fear anymore. I can eat chocolate again!
Most of those meds aren’t intended to cure you. You’re supposed to take them in conjunction with therapy to develop healthy ways of managing the disorder.
That reminds me of that joke about the pill that cures thirst. You just take it along with a cup of water, and voilà, the thirst is gone
Medical treatment for bipolar and schizophrenia is considered lifelong.
For depression, yes, there is one strand of thought it that pairs it with talk therapy, but often people are on the drugs for years.
Yes, much like diabetes someone with bipolar disorder or schizophrenia is going to be taking the medication their whole life. And much like diabetes, working with a medical professional will help them to identify lifestyle changes and coping strategies that allow them to eventually self-regulate their medical concerns, and they will only need occasional professional involvement.
Maybe in some shitty countries, but over here we ain’t prescribing shit without a decent evidence base because the medical regulator is actually competent.
The studies for efficacy in the US are mostly short-term. Psychiatric outcomes in “shitty countries” uninfected with pro-medicine psychiatry are actually better.
You’re claiming the US doesn’t count as a shitty country when it comes to healthcare?
Not arguing much of anything vis-a-vis the US, but most of what gets approved here gets approved everywhere else.
I don’t know of any credible evidence that my country’s medical regulator has been captured by the pharmaceutical industry.
I know this is a joke but don’t combine any of these meds. You might add Wellbutrin to lexapro or Zoloft, but you would never take them together, and your body metabolizes Effexor into the medication in pristiq so they wouldn’t combine those either.
Sorry can’t hear you over the sound of my Paxil
Medications are only there to enrich your doctor! The medical industry only exists to extract profit! You don’t need drugs - it’s natural to be depressed, just look at how bad the world is! ADHD is a superpower! Autism is caused by vaccines!
- Things said by idiots.
(edit: Or just the misguided. Disillusion with the medical industry and all its myriad problems is understandable, but that doesn’t make it a conspiracy nor does it mean the people who dedicate their lives to it are all profit-driven goblins that don’t care about you. Overprescription is a hugely complex and heavily propagandized topic, but tarring all mental health professionals with this brush and discouraging people from getting what little professional help is available is indefensible)
I’ve never been prescribed more than one new (long-term) medication at the same time. I’m currently waiting impatiently to get on methylphenidate again as soon as my doctor is convinced the venlafaxine isn’t giving me side effects. Where do you find these doctors that just throw drugs at you?
It’s no wonder you’ve never heard of them, they’re not very popular doctors - just imagine how prickly it must be to get a physical from someone that’s completely made of straw.
:/ I’ve had multiple different psychiatrists treat my depression like this. Once they run you through the normal gamut of antidepressants (ex: Zoloft, Paxil, etc.) and don’t find any success they start adding the modulating drugs on top (ex: Wellbutrin, Abilify, Buspar, etc.)
Is this comic an exaggeration? Yes. Is it frustrating to be a patient and feel like your doctor is just using the shotgun method? Also yes.
