Linus Torvalds Comments On The Russian Linux Maintainers Being Delisted
www.phoronix.com
  • rtxn@lemmy.worldEnglish
    953·
    2 months ago

    The comments under the article are a special kind of braindead.

    • TheGrandNagus@lemmy.worldEnglish
      711·
      2 months ago

      Always is with Phoronix comments.

      You find everything there from “Gnome is satanist” all the way up to pro-genocide crap.

      I really don’t know what it is about the site that brings out the craziest souch.

      • SquirtleHermit@lemmy.world
        5725·
        2 months ago

        For half a second there, I was like “yeah, so glad Lemmy is more rational than that site”.

        Few comments later, folks be talking about “Ukranian Nazis”…

        • Jesus_666@lemmy.world
          218·
          2 months ago

          Hoo boy, you weren’t kidding. I find it amazing how quickly this went from “the kernel team is enforcing sanctions” to an an unfriendly abstract debate about the definition of liberalism. I shouldn’t, really, but I still am.

        • Rentlar@lemmy.ca
          125·
          2 months ago

          Hahaha I saw the parent commentor of that chain notorious for getting into back and forth arguments, sometimes reasonable sometimes not, and I thought to myself, this is going to be fun. Then I recognized the username of that other .ml user as a known troll and I was like, yep now this is going to go way off the rails.

          • GeneralInterest@lemmy.worldEnglish
            53·
            2 months ago

            I would wager that every country has far-right elements, including Russia.

            What Russia claims though is that the Ukrainian government is full of Nazis, which I don’t think is true.

            • LukácsFan1917@lemmy.mlEnglish
              11·
              1 month ago

              The wager isn’t whether countries have “far-right elements”. The wager is which country has a government that openly venerates a man who slaughtered Jews and Poles for sport. Maybe someday you will understand what happened here.

      • LupertEverett@lemmy.world
        4·
        2 months ago

        The absolute disregard of having any moderation is what does that. If there was any, there wouldn’t be the cases like having someone be there by their third account, after the first two got banned.

        Not to mention that controversy = angry people and trolls = more clicks = more ad revenue. I don’t think Michael wants to miss out on it.

    • Aatube@kbin.melroy.org
      473·
      2 months ago

      Yeah. Why is everyone saying this is removing their contribution credits? It’s just a list of active maintainers…

      • rtxn@lemmy.worldEnglish
        12·
        2 months ago

        That’s a fair point. I rarely read comments on news articles, but morbid curiosity overpowered my self-preservation instinct.

      • Dessalines@lemmy.ml
        201·
        2 months ago

        I would never. The idea that any person should be disbarred from contributing to FOSS due to the actions of their government, is incredibly exclusionary. Linus is acting as much like a toddler as daddy USA is.

        • LukácsFan1917@lemmy.mlEnglish
          21·
          1 month ago

          The funny thing is the Baltoids actually believe this will be good for Linux. They genuinely have no idea what they have done.

    • Quail4789@lemmy.mlEnglish
      144·
      2 months ago

      The west is sanctioning Russia because their daddy US tells them to. Similarly they don’t sanction Israel because of daddy.

  • jol@discuss.tchncs.de
    10425·
    2 months ago

    Linus has never been the best communicator, but he usually speaks the truth. But this is just bonkers and wrong. Not everyone living in Russia has “ties with Russia” other than “they were born there”. If this is about sanctions, he could have still just told them that. But instead he just disrespected contributors completely and then double down in it by being xenophobic.

    • Jumuta@sh.itjust.works
      466·
      2 months ago

      It’s really disappointing seeing Russian contributors being disrespected like this, the regime that rules Russia wasn’t entirely their fault, and allegiance, nationality, and ethnicity are all clearly different things

      Also, wouldn’t a state sponsored Russian hacker pretend to be from the US or something anyway? No way they’d contribute code as a Russian, that’d just increase others’ suspicion

      I agree with Linus a lot too but I strongly disagree here. I hope he’s just being made to say this because of government policies

    • Goun@lemmy.ml
      419·
      2 months ago

      I don’t understand how sanctions can impact free software, tbh, what’s free about this? This leaves a weird taste, I have to admit.

  • umbrella@lemmy.ml
    9016·
    2 months ago

    so are we okay with banning development time donated to foss because of nationality?

    are these people found to support heinous shit or is this just wartime shenanigans?

    • half_built_pyramids@lemmy.world
      2715·
      2 months ago

      Dude is Finnish, from his own mouth, it’s just normal racism against an aggressive imperial, like how people hate the us

      Edit: like how people from lemmy.ml hate Americans, if that wasn’t clear

      • umbrella@lemmy.ml
        3319·
        2 months ago

        finland has pretty bad climate-change-exploitation-fucking-over-the-third-world dealings in my country, despite enforcing seemingly very good stuff inside their own borders so meh, id argue they aint close to the victims they make out to be. some would argue that as a consequence for having a strong socialist influence.

        i have mixed feelings about them as a country, but i recognize there are plenty of good (and even well known good) people on there because of the aforementioned good stuff, linus included. for different but not that dissimilar reasons i think contemporary russian citizens should not be blanket banned from helping everyone out.

        • ouch@lemmy.world
          113·
          2 months ago

          finland has pretty bad, climate-change-exploitation-fucking-over-the-third-world dealings in my country

          Which country is that, and what dealings?

          • umbrella@lemmy.ml
            71·
            2 months ago

            brazil, and they do some shady stuff in the amazon. mainly fuck you extrativism.

            • ouch@lemmy.world
              5·
              2 months ago

              Can you find any links where one can read about this?

              If Finland is wasting tax payer money to something shady, it should be brought to the local media.

              • umbrella@lemmy.ml
                51·
                2 months ago

                heres one i found with a quick google.

                this one is about southeast/northeast brazil, but the finnish are involved in aggressive extractivism in northwest brazil (amazon rainforest) too, and i think its even worse over there. you will dig up pretty horrible things if you do some research on it. about most of the western 1st world countries tbh.

          • umbrella@lemmy.ml
            51·
            2 months ago

            yeah i aint putting my ass on the line for that country, thats for sure.

          • Auli@lemmy.caEnglish
            11·
            2 months ago

            Sure nice of Russia to look after only the breeding stock. Seems some things never change.

  • ouch@lemmy.world
    693·
    2 months ago

    As a finn, I understand that there are probably legal reasons for doing this.

    I just wish they would be transparent and share those reasons with us. The Linux kernel is certainly not the only free software project that is impacted, if this comes straight from EU/US sanctions. Maintainers of other projects have a lot of interest in what is happening.

    Transparency is also important because if EU/US policy/sanctions are causing issues for free software projects, then that discussion needs to be public, so that there is a chance to amend the policies if necessary.

      • JackbyDev@programming.devEnglish
        12·
        2 months ago

        FOSS is inherently political though, but I guess you mean country vs country politics moreso than ideological politics.

      • kmaismith@lemm.ee
        7·
        2 months ago

        That is hardcore wishful thinking, the nature by which critical digital infrastructure is developed and maintained is of keen importance to political systems everywhere. This situation was inevitable with the ongoing escalation of war

        • Alsephina@lemmy.mlEnglish
          5·
          2 months ago

          That’s why the “should be” I guess, though that’s not to say there aren’t idiots (right in this thread too) actually shilling for this.

          If current open source licenses still have flaws like this, we’re gonna need new ones.

      • orcrist@lemm.ee
        4·
        2 months ago

        It has to be there, because politics is connected with lawmaking, and open source software is dependent on laws.

        A lot of people like to say that politics isn’t in their life or that they keep politics out of their life, but the reality is that’s just not true. The rules that govern society affect you, always, either with or without your input, either with or without your acknowledgment.

        You’re probably trying to say that we should keep pointless politicking out of open source software, and I agree, but that’s going to come down to personal definitions of pointlessness.

    • sudo@programming.dev
      102·
      2 months ago

      The legal reasons was because the Linux Foundation is based in the USA and the targeted devs worked for companies explicitly sanctioned by the USA. Linus said he knew and trusted the devs he was forced to delist.

      The Linux Foundation needs to relocate to some stable neutral country like Switzerland.

    • hitwright@lemmy.world
      3310·
      2 months ago

      I’m pretty sure not just the US wants Russia sanctioned to the oblivion. All of the Europe that borders Russia wants that. Now why would it be like that?

      • gigachad@sh.itjust.works
        93·
        2 months ago

        It makes no sense to discuss here.They probably follow Russia’s narrative of Europe being a puppet of the US.

    • dan@upvote.au
      174·
      2 months ago

      In the article, Linus explicitly said that it’s not just a US thing:

      And FYI for the actual innocent bystanders who aren’t troll farm accounts - the “various compliance requirements” are not just a US thing.

      • Phoenix3875@lemmy.world
        9·
        2 months ago

        That’s more like his opinion or a post facto justification. Turns out it is a US thing.

        If your company is on the U.S. OFAC SDN lists, subject to an OFAC sanctions program, or owned/controlled by a company on the list, our ability to collaborate with you will be subject to restrictions, and you cannot be in the MAINTAINERS file.

        So to get back, you have to basically prove that you have no relations with OFAC SDN companies.

        This update is from https://lwn.net/Articles/995186/

  • communism@lemmy.ml
    8025·
    2 months ago

    Everyone who disagrees with me is a paid russian troll of course. Nobody would oppose blacklisting people based on nothing but their nationality unless they were getting paid for it.

    • hitwright@lemmy.world
      2218·
      2 months ago

      I guess it’s difficult to otherwise explain the position you have? It’s not like people face criminal charges in Russia just for speaking against it. It’s easy to see how the state would want to introduce backdoors to most western systems.

      It’s extremely sad that a lot of good Russians get swooped in this. But even abroad their lives are in danger to fight the state.

      • ghu@lemmy.ml
        253·
        2 months ago

        I doubt if someone wants to introduce a backdoor, they would do that with a russian mailing address. People removed were open and transparent about their nationalities which means there is even less chance them being bad actors than some random guy pretending to be American.

        • hitwright@lemmy.world
          14·
          2 months ago

          Aren’t the removed commiters with direct access to the kernel? It’s not like it’s some rando that makes pull requests.

      • davel [he/him]@lemmy.mlEnglish
        611·
        2 months ago

        I think you’re making up a world in your head. Who are these “lots” of “good” Russians who are abroad and whose lives are in realistically danger of state assassination? Not that it has never happened, but you’re blowing things out of proportion. Probably Russia does it at a scale roughly similar to the US.

        • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          153·
          2 months ago

          I think you’re making up a world in your head.

          My friend, they poisoned people in the UK with a fucking nerve agent. They are so brazen and open about people being killed for not doing that the Kremlin tells them.

          They have purposely made a meme out of the “suspiciously fell from window” thing, because they want people to know exactly what happens and why.

          • davel [he/him]@lemmy.mlEnglish
            410·
            2 months ago

            they poisoned people in the UK with a fucking nerve agent.

            Yes, they did. How often is that happening? Proportion.

            • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
              7·
              2 months ago

              We’re not talking about taking out former spies in foreign, sovereign nations you dolt. I used that as an example to show just how brazen and open they are about this stuff. Using such a dangerous method, on foreign soil, is basically unheard of.

              If you actually want to talk about frequency, we should be looking at the defenestration cases…

              This shit is happening so frequently that there are several wiki pages dedicated to listing them:

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspicious_deaths_of_notable_Russians_in_2022

              Scroll down to “see also” for a long list of related articles about the Russian government assassinating citizens and low-level bureaucrats.

              Assuming you actually give a shit

              EDIT: apparently Lemmy markdown doesn’t like the link. For anyone who can’t figure out why it’s not working, or for some weird reason thinks I would make up a wiki page with a title that specific:

              Suspicious deaths of notable Russians in 2022–2024

              And, again, after checking out the main article, take a look at the “see also” section.

              • davel [he/him]@lemmy.mlEnglish
                37·
                2 months ago

                Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name.

                In any case, the defenestrations I’ve heard of have been within Russia, not outside it.

                Using such a dangerous method, on foreign soil, is basically unheard of.

                Not unheard of. US drone strikes on US citizens is a no-less dangerous a method.

                • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                  2·
                  2 months ago

                  It’s almost as if the markdown on Lemmy changed the text of the link so it’s not valid.

                  And you couldn’t take the 3 second to fix it, and then actually learn something.

                  Well done.

                  You also seem confused about what we are even talking about. We are referring to software developers WITHIN RUSSIA. So the risk of defenestration is very real. Again, to repeat myself, I only brought up Russia using chemical warfare on foreign soil as an example to show how open and brazen they are.

                  I edited the original comment with a fixed link if you actually care

        • LeFantome@programming.dev
          6·
          2 months ago

          Very nice link that not only does not have a list of names but also fairly explicitly explains that it is not talking about Americans killing Americans.

          I am not going to spend more than 30 seconds on it but here is the first list of “lots” of Russians that are believed to have been assassinated by their own government.

          https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspicious_deaths_of_notable_Russians_in_2022–2024

          Despite your personal attacks, the trivially discoverable facts are not on your side.

          I used Wikipedia since you apparently find it credible.

          My favourite “suicide” of a notable Russian in the last couple of years was the one that had a suicide note signed by “illegible signature” ( what it actually said ). I guess the FSB did not totally understand the instructions.

          Indeed A LOT of falling out of windows. Quite a bit of poisoning as well. These are the successful ones. How about that time they poisoned the entire Ukrainian peace team including the owner of the Chelsea Football Club?

    • Vilian@lemmy.ca
      1028·
      2 months ago

      That’s true, as he said just use your brain, Russia is under sanctions he literally said that, so Russian troll is a actually very accuracy

  • Arcturus@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    6210·
    2 months ago

    We’re gonna start seeing large open source communities start to break into smaller ones because of sanctions from now aren’t we?

  • Arelin@lemmy.zip
    6414·
    2 months ago

    He’s gonna ban american and “israeli” maintainers too then, I guess?

    • mihor@lemmy.ml
      3749·
      2 months ago

      No, it’s not good, it’s blatantly russophobic.

      I would get it if he would have simply stated that the Linux Foundation needs to abide by the sanctions, pretty much what GKH had said. But for Linus to go ahead with his stupid russophobic rant about Russian bot farms (LOL) is really too much.

      • Vincent@feddit.nl
        122·
        2 months ago

        I would get it if he would have simply stated that the Linux Foundation needs to abide by the sanctions

        I mean, that’s basically what he said:

        If you haven’t heard of Russian sanctions yet, you should try to read the news some day.

        Doesn’t sound like they banned Russians in general, just people employed by sanctioned companies.

        • coolusername@lemmy.ml
          219·
          2 months ago
          1. https://www.rt.com/russia/550493-ukraine-donbass-military-operation-prehistory/
          2. They aren’t committing war crimes at all. You may be referring to something Ukraine made up. For example their own air defense hit civilian apartments and they blamed it on Russia. There are also many many many videos and photos on telegram of Ukranian soldiers hiding in kindergartens and hospitals. They also park military vehicles near apartment blocks to the dismay of the people inside. There’s photo and video evidence of this.

          Really it’s the reverse – Ukraine is committing war crimes. Shelling civilians is a war crime. Murdering people you think that are sympathetic to the Russian gov is a war crime.

          1. Ukraine’s?? They (the gov, which we installed and control) deserve it.
          2. No evidence for this at all. In fact, if you go back to the original Russiagate claim it was debunked by the CEO of Crowdstrike.