I watched a video on this recently. Really interesting, especially how the researchers figured out it was a Russian satellite in a really high orbit. All it takes is a low-power burst to overwhelm the GPS network because it runs on such low powered, sensitive signals. They theorize the Russians were testing for very brief windows to see how well it world work. They could jam these signals anywhere over the Earth. Same for other nations too.
I watched the Veritasium episode on it just yesterday! The other theory is that it was actually being used for covert signals and the disruption was secondary.
Considering the impact of these tests, that doesn’t seem likely. You wouldn’t be sending covert messages in a way that would be so heavily scrutinized. I know it was a theory presented during the video, but that’s just journalistic integrity.
And ultimately, even if they were covert messages, now they also know they can disrupt gps
I think the point was less about making the messages undetectable as it was about making them unjammable. In order to stop their transmission, we would have to essentially shut down GPS for the entire EU. So you might use that frequency to send critical, must-have messages.
Especially once a second signal was noticed that was almost exactly the frequency used by the Chinese GPS system, as mentioned in the Veritasium video.
I thought that was the cover story. They deliberately used a channel partially in the bandwidth for some deniability. It isn’t like they didn’t know what bandwidth GPS used when they designed the satellite.
Yes, that’s the video I watched. Good stuff.
last I checked that channel was owned by private equity so take it with a grain of salt
All it takes is a low-power burst to overwhelm the GPS network because it runs on such low powered, sensitive signals.
The signals aren’t very sensitive, quite the opposite, they’re chosen because they can be very easily detected even at low powers. If you want to jam GNSS from the ground you don’t need a lot of power because the satellites are so far away and their signal is so low. If you want to jam it from a satellite you need quite a lot of power, especially if you consider that the suspected satellite constellation has twice the apogee of the GPS constellation. Also you don’t need a burst of power, you need sustained power to really jam GNSS, the suspected satellites only did bursts because they’re suspected of just testing their system.
GPS satellites send at like 25W of power. Naively I would think you could make that 2.5kW on a satellite without issues, probably even more.
please by all means share this video
My dad w his drawer full of old road atlases: “WHATS UP NOW MOTHERFUCKERS!!?”
Digital maps would still work, you’d just have to know where you are. Just like old books
Like in the before time?
In the before times we barely had mobile phones to go with the digital maps. We were out there printing Mappy itineraries into a stack you’d better not lose
I actually considered getting a couple maps like that lol. Nostalgia, but also redundancy. Also it would be kind of funny to fold out one of those giant maps while everyone else just whips up google maps. We’re going retro, removed.
You have to get ones that used to be at rest areas and stuff that are comically large and impractical to use in a car. Much less try to fold.
I have two sets of these that I use. When one of them’s for when I’m off road and off-grid and very little works. The other one so that way I can have my kids look at just general road atlases as we travel quite a bit they enjoy seeing and trying to find where we’re at. They will come in handy in case of anything happening as far as connectivity and stuff like that.
Protip, you can use the app comaps on android. It downloads and stores the maps for the regions you want entirely offline. The off-road maps are stunning where I am, detail far beyond what google has
Normally I use onX for off road. It’s great so far.
Edit: not sure why all the open street maps show my address incorrectly. It’s frustrating. I had to change it in one app already, not creating another account to add this one change.
If you contribute the change to OSM, it’ll update on them all. I believe that’s what comaps edits do, hence using the openstreetmap account instead of comap account
OnX looks great, price is wild tho
Store the maps in a laptop case so people think you are breaking out the pc.
Also I love maps and as a kid, in the 80s I had maps of just about everywhere, I collected park maps from all the places I hiked and had geological survey maps of the state I lived in. I kept all the maps in the back of my Datsun 510 station wagon. I got lost very often when driving but I would pull over a dig through the maps till I figured out where I was. I did have one of those big roll up maps that you see in old schools, where you could pull it down and it would roll itself back up, but it from the 40s and it’s Africa so there is not any real information on it but it was fun to haul it out un roll it and say " nah I don’t think that’s it" and let it flap around as it rolls up.
I went looking for an image of my map, and found one. https://oldnewhouse.com/products/vintage-classroom-pull-down-map-of-africa-2196?srsltid=AfmBOoqDLztG46dLMq7Eh-hPMAtz0SEnlpnpdGQUu4GIuE5qwMe7MnqT
My map doesn’t look as nice because someone kept it in the back of a Datsun station wagon and used it as a joke prop.
Most people don’t know how unbelievably fucked the world would be if Russia did this on a consistent basis. The entire stock market runs on GPS for nanosecond timing of trades. Shipping, trucking, trains, planes all use GPS. Sure, all of them CAN operate without GPS, but the delays would be enormous because of how efficient GPS is and how automated a lot of things are. Communications systems use GPS for timing to sync up. Farms use GPS for accurate planting and picking of vegetables.
It’d be like Y2K, but for real.
I say, do it?
Trains don’t need gps, do they?
I mean, neither do cars or planes.
Planes don’t? That plane flying off course and getting shot down lead to GPS signals being made accessible to the public.
It helps a lot, but planes were navigating the world long before the invention of GPS.
They also used to go off course and get shot down.
Well, you’ve not specified what shoot down incident you’re talking about but I’d argue the fault probably lies with the trigger happy air defenders not IDing their targets.
My guess is he means Korean Air Lines Flight 007, which was caused by a mistake the Pilots made and a trigger happy/incompetent sovjet Airforce.
VFR pilots aren’t even allowed to use GPS for primary navigation. Those don’t fly bigger airplanes but visual flight is still taught and used to this day
Celestial navigation is still taught. Hard to use in certain weather conditions though.
“GPS” would mean GNSS satellite systems like GPS, as well as terrestrial systems like AGPS and base-station-based triangulation. Given that modern train control systems involve transponders alongside the railway line, these can be used as well. Railway lines running through tunnels in particular would rely on non-satellite systems.
Rail lines use multiple redundant navigation and safety systems. GPS is one of them.
GPS is used a lot in logistics for real-time tracking of trains, trucks, wagons and containers. Of course they don’t need GPS to move, but you need it to coordinate transportation. The train needs to be there on time when the ship arrives, the truck needs to be there in time for the train.
If that process doesn’t work it isn’t only costly, the disruptions propagate. As in your train or flight will be delayed, or you’ll be late for work due to traffic.
Source: I worked for a logistics company and was responsible for a bug that led to trucks being backed up for kilometers in several locations, requiring the police.
Russia and Iran stole a drone a few years back. They did it by jamming and spoofing gps signals
For the life of me, I don’t understand why we as a species try so hard to make life worse for everyone.
Because some people have a hoarding disorder.
Yes we all watched that Veritasium video.
I’ve actively avoided Veritasium since the lightyear long wire video, when he made claims that were proven wrong by numerous other channels and then doubled down on them. Then he sold out to private equity and YouTube has a hard on for pushing their videos in to my feed regardless of what I was just watching. I go so far as to scramble in to the room to change it if I’m just listening to the TV from another room to avoid having YouTube add that shit to my algorithm harder
Claire Saffitz? Veritasium is next. Scary Interesting? Fern next? No Veritasium. Fern? Veritasium. Veritasium videos from years ago you’ve already seen, why not. That fucking light-year video again, fuck you.
That said, EVEN I have seen that video.
His “light-year long” cable video did not make claims that were disproven. Veritasium correctly demonstrates the principles of electric field theory, fully as described by the Maxwell equations, and his follow up video demonstrates the effect much more clearly, because his first video was controversial for being misleading.
If you have an undergraduate level understanding of lumped element model of circuits, it’s understandable to see why this seems “wrong”, but that is not how physics works in reality when we look at the real analog world. If you don’t believe me, feel free to DM me and I can explain better. I work in analog electronics for audio and rf circuits and studied device physics as well.
I mean, he did say he sold out to private equity cause he wanted to retire basically. His channel is basically now his retirement investment
You do know that you can block channels, right?
But my phone has GLONASS too?
Same tech
Article should say GNSS
Apparently al these systems use about the same radio spectrum, so you could jam them all with similar signals.
Let me know when they can block my paper road atlas.
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Words cant describe how much i despie terrorist “state” of russia
watch out, or you might be kicked off your instance :D
Why?
While certainly not all .ml users love russia, all russia lovers are in .ml.
Oft course thats not entirely true, but there are some weird communities there.
Oh no, not something to push people to adopt new block 3 capable receivers!
Surely they won’t just use $20 glonass or beidou receivers…
They’re all susceptible to the same attack. It’s “just” jamming.
For some reason I thought block 3 gps has some kind of rotating side channel bit selection method to resist jamming “perform more consistently in poor electromagnetic conditions” or some such…
would work if it’s regular EM interference but when a satellite broadcasts across an entire spectrum of frequencies there’s little more you can do to adapt.
How would you say that interference broadcast from satellite is different?
EM interference is going to hit lots of places across the spectrum and turn it into swiss cheese.
a satellite actively vomiting EM interference within a radio band takes away the cheese and tells you to fuck off.
I mean in a more technical sense. In what way is “traditional” terrestrial frequency jamming with wide band noise different when the source is extraterrestrial instead?
They aren’t the only ones.
