- cross-posted to:
- politicalmemes@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- politicalmemes@lemmy.world
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Too bad y’all can’t vote for president tho.
If only the Democrats weren’t a fundamental part of our long corrupt political system! That would be so cool.
I voted. Democrats will take the house. They won’t reform shit, watch and learn.
Don’t forget! If you type bOtH sIdEs you win so be sure to respond with that.
Yep, neoliberal gonna neoliberal. They can at least ease the gas on all the nasty social rhetoric but they will not make any significant difference in the capital engine powering it all underneath.
I’m not saying “Don’t vote, nothing changes!”, I am just saying, temper your expectations.
They will if they are more afraid of the public than their donors. (Obviously I would never condone throwing a brick through a congressional rep’s window though, I disavow all political violence for legal reasons)
I can’t vote, it’s illegal for me to
Then don’t vote go where your vote matters?
Wait, are you saying your a felon and can’t vote for that reason? I’m confused.
Also orban was the middleman for putin for funding things like cpac, and dailywire, and other right wing grifters, funny how they mostly became quiet and in disarray ever since thier faucet was turned off.
And now Trump wants to nominate Orban as UN general secretary. WTF.
They’re both part of the Fascista International.
It’s a same thing, both Orban and Trump works for Putin.
I wonder if Orban fucked kids too
Vote Blue, just don’t forget that we are still likely going to need to take to the streets and take action anyway in case Republicans do not step down peacefully, or they ratfucked your state’s elections.
Never forget that Republicans broke the social contract between us and our government by ignoring Due Process and breaking the very foundations of the trust in our legal system. They should not longer be protected by said Social Contract, they do not get to have Due Process after they wiped their asses with it.
Remember the time we all voted blue and defeated Trump and then blue did nothing and here we are again?
Vote blue but elect progressives in primaries. One doesn’t need to be Einstein to figure that out.
We need to protest and call dem reps as much if not more than republicans, no matter which party holds the majority. We know Dems cave to pressure so we need the progressive electorate to apply it more than republicans do. We’re past the days of assuming these fuckwits will do their jobs correctly without public scrutiny. Once again history proves the price of freedom is constant vigilance.
So then you’re ready to organize and take up arms? Because I encourage you to do so. Voting is the small amount of violence direction allotted to you by the system. You should use the hell out of it, because it will be used against you otherwise.
However I agree its not enough, it’s the barest minimum of effort. Not the end all be all as many seem to treat it. So if you’re not voting, I assume you’re calling for direct violent action.
Though I suppose if that’s not it, as well. Then I assume you’re a Republican Agent, and frankly at that point what you deserve are the exact things you enable.
So what are you? What’s your point?
No fanboying for any politicians, ever anymore. Not Obama, Biden, Newsome or Mamdami. They just need to shut the fuck up and do their jobs. Give them no rope, If they aren’t doing their jobs right, demonstrate, protest, strike, fuck their week up until they do their job. Being competent shouldn’t be treated as being exceptional.
What if the Democrat fails my purity test? Shouldn’t I punish the country?
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Yes, and be sure to call anyone who disagrees a monster and idiot. Bonus points if after calling them an idiot you say something factually wrong like you’re dropping truth bombs. Then step outside and enjoy a victory smoke, the weather is wonderful this time of year in Moscow.
We shouls be rioting in the streets more often in general tbh. Look at the state of our states
I’m not sure being on foot in most US cities is a great idea. Car-centric design and low density means you can’t disrupt much and you’re basically caging yourself in for authorities with car to have their way with you. That’s probably why it’s encouraged. Meanwhile, like 20 cars strategically placed could shut down / turn to chaos a large city.
Protest in cars! Block the roads, enjoy the music, grab some snacks.
I propose a very simple thing. Use AIPAC tracker to decide who to vote for. Only vote for people who’ve taken 0$ from AIPAC.
You should still cast a vote in all elections. Write in “anyone who isn’t APAIC” or something.
Sauce for aipac tracker por favor
There are multiple services, which may count the contributions differently, so you’ll probably want to consult more than one or at least compare criteria to see which one best fits your definition. The two dominant ones seem to be:
Some Americans will justify not voting by using Palestine as an example. Well, yeah, your dems suck too but it’s not a reason to not take action. Voting is easy enough, and at least it really works. Fantasizing about the Revolution won’t do shit.
I remember back in the 2010s the argument for not cracking down on the far right in the USA was that that would trigger a civil war. We saw on J6 how many would show up to fight on their side. They were all there. Now, unfortunately they control the military, so it’s much harder.
Coward liberals always paving the road for the fascists that come after them.
I’m getting people posting in trans communities telling me not to vote for democrats.
Makes you wonder what percentage of them are foreign adversaries trying to weaken the US (and its allies) - or simply help fascism - by helping the GOP.
Sure, they all say they simply want the US to stop being fascist, but telling people not to vote for Democrats in the General definitely isn’t helping that.
Ukraine should bomb another Yandex datacenter.
Won’t help, they don’t really have an incentive to host their shit on Yandex anymore. Even if there was anything in the first place, I’ve yet to find a good proof of bot activity being disrupted during those bombings. Don’t get me wrong, it would be a very good story, but SWEs in Russia can be pretty competent.
Maybe destroying a datacenter used by VK would help disrupt the spread of propaganda inside Russia.
VK has its own infra in Mail.Ru datacenters. And because they’ve been serving the government in a larger extent (VK is basically your direct line to FSB), it’s pretty strange that Yandex was targeted instead.
You can’t say that, it threatens the lives of our “friends” over at .ml
This is really why I keep commenting. I’m usually lurking on any platform but it’s so easy to manipulate the narrative with bots, I feel like I have to voice those OBVIOUS things out.
Some communities/instances work furiously to ensure those voices are boosted and ours are suppressed.
Pop an echo chamber bubble, watch the ban come.
Same people, different disguise, specially on Lemmy.
Also voting is a way to shift the Overton window. If the left wing party has a thumping majority, those in the party with more radical views (like being against genocide /s) actually have room to manoeuvre and pressure their leader, or even to split off and form their own party.
The Overton window has been shifting to the right for 60 years because the “opposition” party keeps looking to court right wing votes and offers no challenge to capitalism. The Democrat party wasn’t even in full support of gay marriage until like 2012.
The “vote for the lesser evil, do nothing else, and never demand the party move left” option has seen the Overton window shift right consistently, yet here we are, hearing the same things again from the same people and you’re saying actually the opposite of this strategy will happen now for some reason.
People voted for “hope and change” in 2008 and got Barrack Obama and a Heritage Foundation health care reform. Then the reaction brought Trump.
Vote in more milquetoast liberals, and don’t be shocked when worse fascists start gaining ground because your candidates fail to even address the fundamental problem (capitalism), much less tackle it.
It still doesn’t mean you shouldn’t vote. All the other things you’re talking about are political actions that need citizens’ involvement. It’s a start, not a solution. After you vote, you don’t stop your political life.
+1. Organise and vote — don’t just do one.
many of them became rich, or wealthy if they voted with the gop on many things, they arnt going to let that go. thats why people have a hunch that closed door deals they often meet with mitch who was majority leader most of the time.
The rubber stamp Congress for the left in the US gave you the great society reforms, and Medicaid is still in place as a safety net for a huge number of Americans, and has been for 60 years. Even if the system is imperfect, it’s had a massive positive influence on the lives of Americans who’ve suffered under the current medical system. The point is that there hasn’t been consistent support for democrats over a number of elections since — Obama, Clinton and Biden is all there’s been over the past 60 years, so it’s clear that the American electorate that votes, both inside and outside the Democrat party, prefers republicans or republican-lites. So you end up with republican-lite or fascists because of apathy.
For a UK example, until recently the triple lock on pensions has sat untouched for far too long because it was considered electoral suicide to try and prise money from pensioners grasp because they vote consistently, despite broad consensus that it was a good idea.
Exactly. People can’t just fix everything in one go. And having a “left” majority will at least give a chance to shift the narrative.
Some Americans will justify not voting by using Palestine as an example.
Don’t forget foreigners posing as Americans to help encourage voter apathy among Americans (so the GOP can win).
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Bus stop metaphor. Even if we cant take a train directly where we need to get to, at least we can take a bus in the correct direction.
Best mental description ever. Even self described republicans can surely grasp this idea to be rid of what we have now. I’m heading over to the Library this afternoon to vote early :) ive never voted a straight ticket before. Sort of excited.
Bus stop metaphor. Even if we cant take a train directly where we need to get to, at least we can take a bus in the correct direction.
This assumes there is a bus going in the correct direction instead of two buses both going in the wrong direction at different speeds.
In the absolute worst case, the Dems are equally as bad as the GOP on Palestine (though I haven’t seen many Democrats support building Trump resorts over the rubble).
In that worst case, then Palestine isn’t on the ballot, and you shouldn’t base your vote on it, but on everything else happening. The lesser of 2 evils isn’t an exciting vote, but it is, in fact, a lesser evil and preferable to the GOP.
No, in the absolute best case, Dems will be even worse than Republicans so far. But still less bad then what Republicans would become if they got another term. So yes, vote for them, if it makes sense in your state. Just keep your expectations in check.
Here’s the proof: (1) US capitalism at it’s current stage of decline absolutely needs fascism to survive. Profit rates are just too low, any semblance of democracy would be used by the people to prevent pushing real wages even lower, but that’s needed for the engine of the dying economy to sputter on. The empire is dying, no way around it. Like every single time fascism has occurred in history, it will rise this time too, to save capitalism in crisis.
(2) The Democrats are a capitalist party.
(3) Ergo, the Democrats will urgently push to hasten the march towards fascism.
This is not even a prediction, just an observation, a simple statement of fact. You can’t reform your way out of the cold, mathematical laws of economics.
Revolution is not a “fantasy”, it’s literally the only viable alternative to unimaginable suffering. Voting for Democrats can only serve to buy time to organize for real change. In the coming necessary struggle, Dems are the on the same side as Republicans and on the opposite side of humanity and life on earth.
Ergo, the Democrats will urgently push to hasten the march towards fascism…
The Republicans are actually fucking fascist!!! You have to be joking here, right?
Dude, are you for real? Touch some grass, not everything in life is capitalism.
Everything is touched by capitalism. I don’t understand how in the fuck that might make any US-American who knows what they’re doing not vote for Dems though.
Capitalists might help fascists but fascists are fascists.
Well, yeah, I agree that almost everything around us is either touched by or a product of capitalism. What I mean is that you can’t just say “everything is shit because it’s capitalism”.
Capitalism currently controls nearly every aspect of society. We are all living in a fascist world, don’t get butthurt when it is pointed out.
I don’t think people are butthurt it gets pointed out. The stupidity of how and the bias of what is the problem.
People out here trying to act like the US is the only one who has done this. Many of these people try to act like other countries don’t court soft power, that this campaign to dissuade voting every election isn’t intentional and that the solution is to just let millions of people suffer so armchair activists can pretend they told you so.
So it’s fucking stupid to cry capitalism at every turn when the issues are actually larger than capitalism and many of them actually aren’t from capitalism. Power structures in general, representation, honest and truthful information, greed for control and money. Those issues are way fucking bigger than capitalism, they’re basically timeless human struggles.
Calling it all capitalism and throwing yourself in a fit over it is childish. The fuck is this 2010? People actually do want to push society forward not just make a new boogieman and act like if that’s gone we’ll have a utopia.
Too soon dude, save it for after the resource wars.
Sounds about right to me.
Even at worst, where your candidate doesn’t win, it wouldn’t hurt anything.
At least you’d be doing something, compared to doing nothing.
Voting is easy enough, and at least it really works
Provided your definition of “works” is to preserve an untenable status quo against the people who want to make it worse, then sure.
For those of us looking for actual improvement, voting hasn’t “worked” in over 50 years.
Get the fuck out of here with your fascist apologia bullshit. “BuT vOtInG dOeSn’T wOrK” in a thread literally about voting working. What the fuck do you expect to accomplish with that pathetic, defeatist loser attitude? “Oohh waaah voting doesn’t help so I’ll just sit here and do nothing but discourage everyone else around me to not vote either and then complain more when things get worse and worse”
Wallow in your misery by yourself instead of trying to drag an entire country into your whiny removedbaby bullshit too
Lol, keep doing the thing that hasn’t worked for 50 years, I’m sure it’ll start working any day now!
The only thing voting for Neoliberal ghouls accomplishes is making it easier for Fascists to win the next election. Liberalism and Fascism are two sides of the same coin, that’s why Liberals always happily compromise with fascists but will never compromise with socialists.
Lol, stay mad tho. That rage will be very useful to you once you finally realize for yourself that the people with all the wealth and power will never allow you to vote it away.
Typical ml user
Typical. world user.
See how silly that sounds?
The commie is on the commie instance, more on this developing story as it unfolds…
Step 1: don’t vote
Step 2: ???
Step 3: ???
Step 4: ??? (But please don’t vote! 🥺)
Vote or don’t. But don’t kid yourself it changes anything but aesthetics, and don’t disappear back to the brunch spot when your preferred Neoliberal ghouls win an election.
Sorry, that’s not commie points you’re regurgitating. Just idiot points.
“Anyone opposed to continuing to do the thing that’s been making things worse for forty years is an idiot” and other very serious Liberal thoughts.
Then get your ass out of your La-Z-Boy, throw on your slippers and go vote for actual progressive candidates instead of complaining how unfair the world is like your opinion matters more than a dog’s wet fart. You sit there and act like you’re such an enlightened genius because you realize both sides are bad, so instead of doing something to change either of the sides, you sit around and encourage everyone else to sit around and just removed about it. Unless you’re doing literally anything to try and change literally anything, you can shove this pro-fascist garbage up your own ass and stop trying to convince other people that doing nothing is the right choice. Fucking loser attitude
I spent a decade working my ass off for progressive candidates. Which means I know how the party actually works and how it prevents anyone who isn’t a Third Way Foundation certified Neoliberal ghoul from ever getting to touch any real power.
You should do the same. You’ll learn the same lesson and you’ll become another bitter middle aged communist arguing online with children who think their 10th grade civics class understands of politics qualifies them to tell you anything at all.
You make an amazing amount of assumptions about other people while highlighting your own ignorance. You’re the reason we’re where we are.
highlighting your own ignorance
What ten year period did you spend working on campaigns for Democratic candidates? What other bona fides do you have to talk about party politics and the organization of the Democratic Party as a whole with any authority?
Seems to me like you’re the one highlighting your ignorance by dismissing someone with a lot more relevant experience in the subject at hand with nothing but a “nuh-uh!!”.
And that means that like I’ve been saying all along, you and everyone else happily accepting narratives from billionaire owned media are the actual reason we’re here.
I question these comments when I read them.
Do you live in the US?
I can promise you it was much different under Obama, Biden and Clinton.
I do live in the US. And the only thing that was different under them was that it was closer in time to the time when the USSR existed and capital had to compromise with labor to keep labor from revolting. The further we get, the more compromised are rolled back (by both parties, regardless of who’s nominally in power), the worse it seems, but that’s just linear time, not Dem administrations being better.
You know where things were absolutely not any better under Obama, Biden, or Clinton? Anywhere outside the Imperial Core. I promise the people of Libya are not thanking Obama and Hillary for bringing open air slave markets to Tripoli, the people of Gaza aren’t thanking Biden for turbocharging their genocide, fucking nobody with a brain thinks Clinton did anything good for anyone but his Wall St donors. To say
I can promise you it was much different under Obama, Biden and Clinton.
Is to say that you don’t see people outside the US and Western Europe as fully human.
Lmfao. Bro you’re cooked. No idea what you’re talking about. Just rah rah rah talking points!
Your inability to understand simple concepts is a you problem, not a problem with the concepts.
I do live in the US
Highly unlikely
“Anyone who doesn’t regurgitate the billionaire owned media narrative is a dirty foreigner or subhuman bot”
What a very serious and not at all insane political philosophy you have there.
Lol, we’re simply making observations. But that’s a cute deflection.
You could try going back to what I originally wrote and responding to its actual substance instead of dismissing any criticism you don’t have a talking point to counter as bots and evil foreigners, but I doubt you will.
Are you doing anything about it? How do you actually see it happening? Real questions.
And yeah, I mean, it’s a shitty vote, but it’s harmless to go and just do it. It CAN be worse if you don’t. Fuck, even my compatriots vote while being under dictatorship.
Anti-fraud measures played a huge part as well both in Hungary and Serbia. Groups of volunteers hung around voting stations, spotting and reporting irregularities. Sometimes getting threatened by burly men who brought dozens of impoverished people who sold their votes in vans and stuff like that. They’re the unsung heroes of these elections.
I just listened to a podcast which mentioned that regimes that cheat during the elections can only mobilise a fixed amount of people. If twice the number of people go to vote, they might be able to mobilise more, but definitely not twice as much. Ergo the more people go to vote the least power cheaters have to skew the results.
This was part of the reason Orbán could be finally voted out of power.
GO VOTE. NO MATTER WHAT.
(It was also quite funny to watch Orbán as he was explaining to his voters how the voting system was set up to inflate the difference. He himself had set up all these rules back when it favoured him.)
I didn’t know they organized to this extent. That’s awesomey thanks for the link.
~50k volunteers worked all around the country to stop election fraud
There haven’t been many English-language articles on the topic - I’m trying not to be paranoid about it, but it crossed my mind that it’s a bit suspicious. With Trump’s history and interference intentions, I think the importance of citizen preparation and organization cannot be overstated.
I hadn’t read anything about this in Finnish either. What languages have there been articles in?
To be fair, Finnish is very hard to read for me as a German. I couldn’t have read it as well.
I’ve read a few in Hungarian. Here’s one about the Hungarian election, here’s another about the Serbian election. Maybe machine translation can help?
But you know what? The documentary the Hungarian volunteers made to raise awareness is available with both English and Finnish subtitles on YouTube! It’s a bit long, but it might be worth a watch!
But if I vote for 60% of my interests then I still loose!!?!
Choice 1: 60%
Choice 2: 30%
Not choosing: 0%
Choose wisely.
I think/hope it was sarcasm.
11% sarcasm
So voting was a complete failure for 16 out of 17 years?
Exactly! For 16 years in a row the “don’t bother to vote” people got direct and repeated proof of just how useless and stupid that plan was.
It wasn’t until people got so sick of it that they finally decided to do something useful instead of just sitting around and complaining.Just like the U.S! This doesn’t mean you shouldn’t vote.
Kind of what I was thinking. He had a good run and finally got ran out. He got almost two decades of corruption in. This was a win for him and corruption.
Please please please, America. Get your orange, shit stained, geriatric, pedo rapist, despotini
into an electric chair,prison,care, under control. We’re begging you! -The rest of the worldNot only don’t listen to the “both parties are the same” people - get them out of your life, block them, move on to giving your time to people who believe in change. It’s not naive to believe in making progress, it’s naive to think it won’t take hard work and have lots of setbacks.
Exactly also don’t expect to take party on one election and get things changed. Democracy is not a spectator’s sport.
Both sides are the same. In that they both serve the Epstein class.
But one side wants to give you health care.
The other side wants to let you die because Line Go Up!
I’m kind of there with you.
“Both sides are bad” = true.
“Both sides are the same” = false.
And really ‘both sides’ are bad because we let them be. More attendance and information for primaries and choices would probably be a hell of a lot more palatable in most places.
Booth sides need money to win marginal elections. Until we get unlimited money out of politics, we get bullshit corporate bootlicking.
Vote for the best of candidate you can, and demand they legislate away Citizens United and the associated bullshit that is corporate “free speech”.
I agree, the democrat party in particular does give room to socialist policies on a more local level, just look at Mamdani (and hopefully Al-Sayed in a few weeks). If you elect enough of those and get rid of the “nothing ever happens” democrats like Schumer and Jeffreys, you can make real change happen.
Good luck trying to do that on the Republican side, the most you’ll do is vote for someone who’s slightly less Hitler but still very conservative.
democrat party
Democratic Party
Don’t repeat Trump’s poor grammar.
Both sides are bad, but we stand a better chance of fixing the one that actually wants us to have elections.
There’s no doubt there are bad apples on democratic party, but the notion that they are one unified block is absolutely wrong.
We essentially have two parties: Republicans and party representing everyone else.
For example check Blue Dogs caucus, those are essentially Republicans that don’t line trump. So called New Democrats are calling themselves centrists. In American politics what’s center is called right everywhere else.
This is why Democrats often fight as aggressive as we would like them too, because they need to find compromises between themselves. Want Democrats that fight for people, vote in primaries and local election and install progressives. There’s a shift, but we need a bigger one.
The wild thing is that republicans are conservative and democrats are centrists.
By “both sides,” people seem to mean right and middle.
Can we have an actual left?
Yes but the only realistic way to do it is to tea party the dems left by running progressives and primarying incumbents and voting strategically in every single election. But, and this is the part where it all falls apart, progressives mostly don’t vote.
But one side wants to give you health care
Well, part of one side. There are Dem politicians who either don’t support M4A or only support it when it clearly has no chance of succeeding and thus their support will be irrelevant, dropping that support when it starts mattering.
One side is:
- raping children
- murdering US citizens
- dismantling the healthcare system without the required approval
- bragging about tampering with voting machines
- starting trade wars and
- starting actual wars.
The other side, for all their faults, are not doing all that.
But they are enabling it and sending an insane amount of money to a genocidal, fundamentalist, child trafficking colony that uses its excess wealth from this corrupt system to keep supplying weapons and money to continue an ever expanding genocide. So that’s not great
Not great, but still better than doing the first list AS WELL AS THE SECOND.
Yes but I’ve been voting blue no matter who for over 20 years. My parents and grandparents died voting blue no matter who for thier entire lives and things keep getting worse and more corrupt and fascist. We need a revolution. These politicians aren’t scared of us and that’s a real problem
You should go back and study revolutions critically. I think you are romanticising revolution quite a bit and the reality is most revolutions are just another group of wealthy people taking control.
“Some of you may die, but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make.”
So just vote harder? That’s your winning strategy?
You took a meme you liked and wrote it as if you authored it.
If the Republicans stop winning the Democrats can be pulled left, but wherever the Republicans win, the Democrats are pulled right.
I spoke honestly from my life experience. Not from a “meme”
Absolutely. Let them wallow in their defeatist echo chambers. The word for people who insist you can never win is Losers.
Both sides are the same can be progressive as well. You have to know that voting won’t solve your problems while seeing that it can give marginal improvement.
Yeah the important thing is you do something to actually try and help improve the situation on the ground.
Its hopeless though. America has never been great. I wake up each morning fetch water from the well and scrub my peasant cloths clean all the while thinking, “man I wish there was any other life than this, one where I could see rockets shoot to the moon. One where I could see every imagined thought brought to life in a digital world. One where I could learn from endless wells of knowledge just waiting to be tapped. One with machines and automation that could do the work of a 1000 men.”
Its all for naught, though. I put on my burlap sack and tend to livestock while my indentured wife grinds the meal for tonight’s porridge. Life in america, what a waste.
One where I could learn from endless wells of knowledge just waiting to be tapped
Pops out of nearby well
Excuse me, did I just hear you suggesting we should improve society somewhat?
How, how how how? I cant imagin how. No, this is as good as it gets.
