Yeah fuck circumcisions. Child abuse is what it is. I want my fucking foreskin back
My mother used to hate it when people would get baby girls’ ears pierced. Called it child abuse and mutilation.
I’m circumcised.
Damn. That’s pretty fucking shit.
Same here, some fucked up shit.
I want my fucking foreskin back
Doom music starts playing
The Only Thing They Fear is Foreskin
Fearskin
I have a certain set of skills…
Foreskills
Not sure how badly you want it back, but it is possible to restore. Non-sugically. Basically skin under tension causes Mitosis (skin cells dividing to make more skin) - think putting on weight, gaining muscle, getting pregnant, or ear gauges. You tug the skin long enough and eventually have your hoodie back. The results are surprisingly impressive. r/restoring_foreskin has a bunch of info
bruh. I don’t necessarily want it back and was just angry about the fact that it was taken from without my consent in the first place. But thanks for the info anyway, tho not sure what I’m gonna do with it.
Tug the foreskin? Lol
Hmmm, perhaps we can play tug of war with foreskins lol
I basically did by accident
Username checks out.
I’m intact(/uncircumsized) and cannot imagine how you would accidentally do that
Honestly just being way too rough with it for like twenty years
That’s not gonna restore the nervous system bits associated.
New nerves do grow. Muscly/fat/pregnant people have the same skin senstitivity. But there are special function bits that are lost. The Rigid Band has special nerve endings, gone forever. Frenellum too
Just make sure to double, triple, quadruple check any foreskin restoration advice you get. Some of the ways people suggest can be really dangerous.
Oh, I’ve seen that. It’s fascinating. There’s a ball with outer clamps and varying degrees of weights you can add on a dangly bit. You attach the contraption for some number of increasing minutes per day, and it stretches the skin surrounding the glans until it’s long enough to encompass the glans. After a while, the little ball will be encompassed by the new foreskin.
He says it’s not painful and I believe him, but not being the owner of a penis, it looks at least uncomfortable to me. Then again, I’ve never used gauges, either, and as you said, it’s pretty similar to that.
I don’t want much just want my foreskin back again
No it’s not TMI I shared it 'cause we’re friends
My parents chose this road but I’ll choose where it ends
Don’t I deserve it all? Gonna grow it back againGrow It Back Again - foreskin restoration anthem from How To with John Wilson (HBO 2020)
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Grow It Back Again - foreskin restoration anthem from How To with John Wilson (HBO 2020)
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Oh yeah I remember this guy. He has a good cause (anti circumcision) but had to ruin it with Bill Gates conspiracy theory nonsense. Also I love How to with John Wilson
edit: hmm actually there is some stuff about bill gates and circumcision so I should probably fact check myself here
Genital mutilation under the guise of “easier to clean” is stupid. Cutting off your legs also makes them easier to clean.
That wasn’t the original reason. It was to stop masturbation. The whole cleaning thing was a later rationalization when they realized how fucked up it was.
Jokes on them. Masterbation has never been in higher demand.
Everyone has been side lined by the tobacco industry nobody stopped to look at the moisturiser industry.
Yeah instead of doing it at birth they should have done it as a punishment for people who masturbate. That would have worked much better
I like mine cut tbh; I think it looks nice.
I mean, people just like what they’re used to.
If you never got circumcised, you’d likely be saying “I prefer uncut. Looks a bit weird with a piece missing.”
I’m willing to bet if you surveyed, say, Israel or Saudi Arabia, on what looks better between chopped and natural, they’ll say circumcised. And if you surveyed, say, Australia or Spain, they’ll say uncircumcised looks better.
High five to uncut team
That’s fine, as long as that isn’t used as a justification to normalize this procedure’s continued use without medical necessity.
I ain’t going around telling anyone how to raise their kids.
what does hacking an infant’s wiener up have to do with raising children?
First I agree with you. Need to say that first.
If you go back to the beginning of this procedure, how(/if) people cleaned themselves looks very different from. Our modern world.
Because of that it seems it being a health issue is a lot more likely for the origin of circumscision as a regular societal practice. Even if that was not the main reason but one of the supporting reasons people allowed it to become normalized. The history of hygiene(or the lack there of) is horrifying.
I mean Lysol was developed as a feminine hygiene product… We have done some very questionable things because of snakeoil practices even in relatively modern times (which i think religion is one of the OG snakeoils)
What are we doing today that will look as crazy to the people of the future as circumcision does to many of us right now I wonder?
What’s even funnier to me is how people will full on rage when someone brings up female genital mutilation while in the same breath saying circumcision is fine
The main problem is that people tend to intuitively think of the least invasive form of male circumcision and the most horrific form of female genital mutilation.
For both genders, all kinds of forms exist
the least invasive form of male circumcision
Is what’s in these discussions.
the most horrific form of female genital mutilation.
Is there any other kind in regular discussion? When people refer to FGM, they’re not talking about labiaplasty (which would be a more appropriate comparison).
A labiaplasty is not equivalent to removal of the foreskin. It would be like removing the clitoral hood. Educate yourself before sharing your thoughts please.
labiaplasty (which would be a more appropriate comparison).
How are you coming to this conclusion?
The foreskin has more nerve endings than the glans, and double that of the clitoris. The labia in contrast has much fewer nerve endings, which is why sexual stimulation is not easily accomplished with simply stimulating the labia. Possible? Yes. But not nearly to the same degree as clitoral stimulation.
Edit: Given the lack of elaboration, I’ll have to assume the conclusions reached by a gut reaction of “skin is skin” which is not at all how this works.
Dude, yeah. It’s so weird.
I refused circumcision for my son (25 years ago, US hospital), and had to remind the staff several times because it was just assumed it would be done. I stopped them 3 times during different shifts when they were about to take him from our room for the procedure.
Then when it came up in conversation when he was an infant, people would say to me ‘you should have done it’, because he would get infections (he never did), or he’d be bullied in gym showers (he never did to my knowledge), or whatever. My take was it should be his decision, not mine.
The pressure was really intense, though. It’s weird how interested people can be in someone else’s infant’s penis. We’ve never talked about it, but reading stories from other men, I assume he’s happy being uncut, and I’m glad I didn’t do it.
e: for anyone reading this days later, I did ask my son for his opinion prompted by this conversation, mostly because of responses I got elsewhere in this thread that made me question my decision:
Me: Hey man, so feel free not to answer this if it’s too personal, but I was having a debate about circumcision and another parent challenged me saying I’d made the wrong decision. So yes/no/I don’t want to talk about it cuz that’s weird, do you regret my decision?
Son: I don’t, and none of my partners have, either. I only get thumbs up and compliments. I hope that wasn’t too personal.
Me: Not at all. Thank you for giving me your and your partners’ review!
So yeah, it’s not just my assumptions. And no regrets.
My take was it should be his decision, not mine.
It’s not though. They’ll never be able to go back and have it done as an infant. Time machines don’t exist.
The procedure is much, much easier as an infant than it is as a boy or teenager or adult.
I respect whatever decision you made. There are reasons for both. But no, he didn’t have the option to go back and have it done easily.
And sorry about the pressure. You shouldn’t have to go through that, and I hope/expect that aspect is better after 25 years.
every slice and dice would be easier as an infant as you wouldn’t remember it anyway. you’re an idiot
I actually think about the ignored psychological effects of dealing with that level of physical pain so soon after being born a lot.
Birth is already a traumatic experience for both mother and infant. But to then immediately, with no anesthesia, cut an extremely sensitive part of the infants body off? That has to leave some kind of mental scarring.
I can actually speak to this.
I was born with a genetic condition affecting my collagen (Ehlers Danlos), which meant my bones were overly soft and, since I was breach til moments before birth, my legs were bowed pretty severely. This was in 1971, and the treatment at that time was the doctors literally bent my legs into position manually and then braced them for my first few years. That’s not how they deal with it nowadays, because they learnt it was horribly painful.
I don’t remember that initial experience, obviously, but my mother tells me several years later when I was a young child and having problems walking, she took me to the doctor and they finally worked out that I was in excruciating pain all the time. They asked why I hadn’t said anything and I told them it was because everyone was always in excruciating pain, but nobody else was complaining about it, so I shouldn’t either. I’d been in pain since birth, and just figured it was normal.
That experience prevented me from getting proper care and made my early childhood hell. I still have emotional trauma from it. So yeah, early pain is not benign.
I’ve seen people lose their shit over babies with pierced ears and young children getting tattoos. There’s all sorts of dental work you go through as a kid that you have functionally no control over.
Even had someone chew me out because a foster kid I was taking care of got a haircut (three years old and she’d literally never had one before).
At some point, it is the parent’s duty to take care of the child, and that extends to medical decisions with profound long-term consequences. I get wanting to change the culture, but the degree to which people exaggerate the harm of circumcision struggles to eclipse the degree to which it is defended.
Cutting off your legs also makes them easier to clean.
There is some substantive utility to legs that doesn’t extend to the bit of flesh around the tip of your dick.
Honestly, can you elaborate on what would be a justified reason to do it?
I mentioned in another comment how circumcision dramatically reduces the rate of spread of STDs. That is, at least from my perspective, the primary (and original) incentive to circumcise. Significantly less of an issue now, because you can just get a condom. But in areas where access to a consumer profilactic isn’t readily available or one in which STD infection is high, it would make a great deal of sense to perform the surgery as a preventative measure.
Same as giving your kid vaccine shots or putting them in the NICU for the first few weeks of their life or demanding that they wash their hands regularly.
circumcision dramatically reduces the rate of spread of STDs
Source? Most of the world doesn’t circumcise, and they don’t have a higher prevalence of STDs than places that do. As long as you practice good hygiene, there should be no issues.
That is, at least from my perspective, the primary (and original) incentive to circumcise
No it wasn’t. It originated thousands of years ago as a Jewish religious ritual, that had no biological or scientific basis. It was popularised in the US about 100 years ago as a way to reduce sensation in the penis in order to stop teenage boys from masturbating – by Dr Kellogg, for the same reason he invented cornflakes. He was hyper-religious and fixated on stopping boys corrupting themselves by masturbating. The hygiene myths came later and have been debunked.
It’s an outdated practice based on bad science and beliefs that should stop. That’s not to say anyone should feel bad for having done it when we didn’t really know better, but there’s no reason to continue doing it now.
e: missed a word
I agree with all that except for one thing. Kellogg did not invent corn flakes to stop people from masturbating. He did mention once that a bland diet could be used to deter masturbation, but there is no coorelation to corn flakes.
He did, though. I currently live less than an hour from his museum in Battle Creek, Michigan, and there are lots of things about him that aren’t widely shared on the internet.
Did you know that one of his biggest accomplishments was a foster home for orphans that was destroyed by fire? Running that foster home was what inspired his obsession with a bland diet and with circumcision. He was very strict with their diet, believing certain grains would purify the soul (first oatmeal) – the original, unadulterated grains that were mentioned in the bible. The boys in his home weren’t accepting of his extreme version of Christianity, and he thought that was mostly because they were corrupting themselves bodily. He thought all boys weren’t receptive to Christianity because they were too into their own desires, and he could fix that. First by diet, and when that didn’t work, by cutting off the part of their penis that distracted them by making them feel good, thus tempting them from god’s word. He was a doctor, so people listened.
This is all Wikipedia dedicates to that part of the story:
Kellogg was outspoken about his views on race and his belief in racial segregation, regardless of the fact that he himself raised several black foster children.
So it’s understandable people are downplaying that part of his life. If you live near here, you know the details the internet has mostly forgotten.
We really need to stop chopping up infant boys based on the ideas of a bigoted religious fundamentalist.
e: clarity
I’m sorry, cutting off a newborn’s foreskin is the same as washing their hands?
Did you eat a lot of paint chips growing up?
As far as I am aware there is only one study done in Africa that showed that there is a correlation between circumcision and a reduced chance to get HIV.
But that is the only study and only HIV, not all STIs.
Also this is moot in most of the world where you have access to condoms.
Circumcised men compared with uncircumcised men have also been shown in clinical trials to be less likely to acquire new infections with syphilis (by 42%), genital ulcer disease (by 48%), genital herpes (by 28% to 45%), and high-risk strains of human papillomavirus associated with cancer (by 24% to 47% percent)
By all means, you should still wrap that shit. But if you’re living in a rural community or one that has a strong stigma against contraception, or you’re just in a place where the disease is rampant and you need a secondary precautionary policy, this will have a meaningful impact on disease spread.
Still not really reasonable, especially considering that for the most part this decision can just wait until adulthood
Not so dramatically you can not wear a condom. So given you’re going to strap up anyway, what’s the benefit to having surgery on your genitals?
Circumcised men compared with uncircumcised men have also been shown in clinical trials to be less likely to acquire new infections with syphilis (by 42%), genital ulcer disease (by 48%), genital herpes (by 28% to 45%), and high-risk strains of human papillomavirus associated with cancer (by 24% to 47% percent)
By all means, you should still wrap that shit. But if you’re living in a rural community or one that has a strong stigma against contraception, or you’re just in a place where the disease is rampant and you need a secondary precautionary policy, this will have a meaningful impact on disease spread.
The majority of US citizens do not fall into those categories, and for that reason I see it as an unnecessary procedure that is more cultural than scientific.
The majority of US citizens do not fall into those categories
They did once, and they very well might in the near future, depending on how we handle legal contraception going forward.
I don’t think this is the original reason, but it has been found to happen. Also, your risk of penile cancer goes to almost zero, as well as fewer and less serious complications related to the foreskin (or its absence). Going fully nude while circumcised is a dangerous game, though.
Source?
Here’s what the CDC had to say about their original statements and a rebuttal to criticisms about circumcision. It only obliquely mentions genital cancer, but this article specifically discusses that.
Being able to turn the end of my dick into a water balloon is all the substantive utility I require, sir.
A perk of living in a modern world.
Foster kid is a different situation but in general seriously don’t bring someone else’s kid to their first haircut. Thats an important moment for parents. It’s a major milestone, especially with girls. That original in-utero hair behaves different.
Three years isn’t that weird. I know a girl who was 4 for her first. She had the most gorgeous, long curls. It was really hard for her mom to get rid of those.
Know a couple boys who were each three too. They look like totally different kids once they lost all their baby curls.
Yeah but as a dad, i don’t like legs. I want my kid to look like me. I was amputated voluntarily. Legs get dirty anyway.
Actually, why not just cut off the penis and replace it with a tube? That’s a lot cleaner and still functional!
If this is
/sits verry funny and asys somthing interesting, im frustrated that the thread has fallen into a false dichotomy,Its not ‘not okay’ in the same way its ‘not okay’ to cut off someones leg because thats unamniguiosly being crippled. (Good spoof though!) its amniguiosly immoral.
Yeah a better analogy would probably be female genital mutilation but americans generally aren’t familiar with that.
The real issue is consent. I get that parents consent for their children, but that doesn’t mean the parents are correctly predicting the kid’s preferences.
It’s just a strange practice that we do in america, not due to religion, but due to … reasons? Cleanliness? “I want my son’s cock to look like mine?” it’s weird as hell, but accepted for some stupid reason.
female genital mutilation
okay… wow.
circumcision is a harder to understand, wrapped in the cloak of medical hospitality to be blunt, its a different form of female genital mutilation.
I believe its a remnant from old Christianity (Judaism?), where it would mark and/or purify the child in some way. If I’m not mistaken, the god of Abraham communicated that things like sacrificing lambs and other rituals isn’t useful as a sign of good will.
but yet this literally unholy practice remains to this day.
to be absolutely fair, mom said yes, telling me the doctors said there was some kind of health benefit, somthing about infections.
A benefit that no one can seem to articulate, to this day.
Yeah, pretty sus
Yeah but as a dad, i don’t like legs.
Correlating ear-piercing with decapitation, and holding a picket in front of “Forever 21” with a big sign that reads “STOP MURDERING CHILDREN” and a picture of a tunnel drill going through a baby’s forehead.
Are you confident you understand what gentials are?
What about your understanding of consent?
Are you confident you understand what gentials are?
Its when you’re not jewish.
Yes, you are correct. Only jewish people have genitals. Thank you for playing.
I think they’re trying to make a pun based on how the word “gentile” (which literally means not jewish) sounds very similar to “genital”.
Only jewish people have genitals.
I’m sorry, what’s up bro?
As an American who’s uncut… there’s a scar?
What’s fucked is I had no idea that was a scar until I was well into adulthood.
This is something I do not wish to google. Is it noticeable? I would assume a small surgical cut that occurs at infancy leaves no significant scar
Not to be crude but this pretty much is what I’m talking about. It’s almost like having a two toned penis…
NSFW btw… Although it is just a drawing
Wow the frenulum gets removed as well sometimes? What an outdated and ridiculous thing to be doing to children for absolutely no good reason. Yeah sure, some studies show it improves hygiene I’ve been told. To me that’s about as proportionate as removing all your healthy teeth so you don’t get cavities in the future…
The studies where it ‘improves’ hygiene are poorly designed as they don’t control for education and understanding.
In other words - what’s better: teaching our baby boys the simple act of cleaning under their foreskin in the bath, along with the rest of their body or cutting off a sensitive and important part of their body to make masturbation and sex more difficult?
It’s the dumbest shit ever.
Is anyone elses penis turtling the more they read of this comment thread?
Ok wait the rest of this is important but sidebar, my peehole is called a MEATUS??
Biden needs to bring this up at the next State of the Union address
POTUS bringing up the MEATUS
A bit wierd, but hey, whatever gets it hard for you. I’m not here to judge.
A meatus is a hole/tunnel, with some specific properties. You also, just as a by the by thing, have an external acoustic meatus on each side of your head.
Two tone Malone 😞
Are you saying all those vitiligo penises in porn are actually just circumcised?
Let’s just say there is a definitive line where what once was my foreskin now just is a smooth piece of skin connected by another. I wouldn’t call it a scar because like I said I had no idea it was not normal. There’s definitely a noticeable difference between the top part and the rest of it. I’m not sure how else to put this delicately. Honestly, I would just google it.
Unacceptable. Upload a pic of the tip of your dick pls.
I mean if you really want it I’ll do it. It’s just anatomy. Plus I have a wide angle lens…
It’s not like I want to see it, but I’m this down the thread it’s too late to stop. Bring it on.
LMFAO that was good 👍
It is the number one cause of Two-Tone-Malone.
There is no scar.
Always weird to be reminded that the World’s eminent superpower is obsessed with cutting bits off babies’ dicks. But then, maybe that’s the secret behind their economic strength?
After all, the Romans did some pretty wild stuff, like making their horses generals.
I mean, the Middle East and Africa have even higher circumcision rates and it doesn’t seem to be working out for them
I’m Canadian they do this here as well
I didn’t realise you had horse generals.
I mixed up a few words and in the context interpreted this as “horse genitals”.
As a Canadian can we try to convince people that this is true about all Canadians.
Omg me too and I didn’t realize it was generals until I read this comment. I need sleep
Amazing. That’ll confuse people when dropping a random comment in.
“My money’s on the blue team. They’re doing really well this season” “I didn’t realise you had horse genitals”
Ah, the old Lemmy S-whinny-roo!
Yay! I’ve missed this!
The Romans used to do the opposite, and tie their foreskin shut just to be extra sure no one would see the head of their penis.
I bet that made a mess when they peed
Could you still fuck a general? Asking for a hoplite.
Perhaps the next natural step is joining that with their love of firearms. Circumcision by mass shootings or something.
I don’t really care. My dick works great, I wouldn’t do this to my kids but my parents trusted the doctor. I still love my parents anyway.
E: also, this illustrated girl looks really weird, and this is a really weird conversation. Real women do not look like this, and I wouldn’t get naked in front of a girl who looked like this. Eeesh.
oh, the parents? for the most part unknowing, the doctor on the other hand? ya, hate him
I don’t hate the doctor either. It was a long time ago, and intent matters. I don’t think the doctor wanted to hurt me, they likely bought into the studies and groupthink that were prevalent at the time.
The result is unfortunate, but it happened, and we all strive to do better with our own kids, especially now that we have things like the internet.
Supposedly is super safe and has health benefits, I once compared it to female genital mutilation and ooh boy was I corrected.
Edit: the above is far from an endorsement. Some of yall could use some practice critical reading.
The health benefits are overblown and the evidence is largely from flawed studies. While not as debilitating as clitoris circumcision, it’s still genital mutilation and it’s regularly done in the US for no good reason beyond cultural pressure.
Thanks. I researched circumcision extensively when my son was born. These comments are from people who have literally “no skin” in the game.
Same. Don’t let anyone make you feel bad for not doing it. I don’t know how old your son is, but mine’s 25 and I’ve never heard any complaints. He never got an infection, and never got bullied over it.
It’s a simple procedure they can get done as an adult if they’re unhappy with their penis, and at that point it’s their choice, which imo it should be.
eta for anyone on the fence: they can always remove the foreskin if they want, but growing it back is another matter.
If you were uncircumcised now, would you choose to have it done at your current age? No. Then, why do it to a baby without their consent? It’s a bodily autonomy issue.
I chose to when I was 13 because ejaculating felt like my urethra was going to rip in half. If I somehow made it like that another thirty years I would absolutely have it done again.
My father had to have his removed for the same reason (I know this because we had a conversation when I was pregnant with my son and said I wasn’t going to have him circumcised). That can happen, and I’m sorry it happened to you.
I still didn’t have my son circumcised, and would make the same decision today because those issues are comparatively rare. It sucks a lot if you have to go through that, but preemptively removing the foreskin seems harsh considering how rare complications are.
I don’t disagree with you at all. I have two sons, first one is circumcised due to medical advice from our doctor and our second one isn’t. I try to inform myself as much as possible but ultimately depend on medical professionals that I trust to help me make the best decisions I can. I’m certain I’ll never get them all correct but I do my best to be informed. I’m fairly certain the online narrative of vitriol towards circumcising isn’t aimed at medically advised procedures but the loudest voices seem to be the most ignorant towards the realities of life’s nuances. While it is mostly black and white their is still some gray area that gets lost in what I assume is well meaning commentary.
Not a real comparison. A baby is given some sugar water and already lives in diapers. They don’t even bleed after it’s done, and you just put some jelly on the front of the diaper for the first few weeks. They experience no discernable discomfort.
An adult male has gone through puberty and has a life that doesn’t involve sleeping through 18 hours of it and getting changed every couple of hours. The risk of infection is greater because you are an adult who doesn’t get the luxury of having every single need met 24/7 and getting to rest through your entire recovery.
It’s a totally valid comparison.
Removing the foreskin has real ramifications for not only looks but sexual pleasure (which, by the way, was why it was popularised by puritan Christians in the US – the original point was to stop teenage boys from masturbating by making it less pleasurable).
Cutting off the foreskin at birth takes something from a man that he can’t really restore later, whereas doing nothing gives him the bodily autonomy to make that decision later. You can always remove it if you want, but once it’s gone, you can’t just grow it back.
A baby is at your mercy and has no choice in the matter.
No, you only have a short window to make it a nothing surgery vs. a week+ recovery time.
A baby will always be at their parents’ mercy. And if a parent feels the medical benefits outweigh the risks, they get to make that choice.
Also, I don’t get why people keep bringing up Kellog and his ilk. It’s irrelevant. WHO and the CDC both cite benefits. That’s relevant enough for a person today without pretending the reasoning has to be based on old information.
Again, cite sources?
Yes, I’m aware it’s a week of recovery time later. I made the decision not to circumcise my son after talking to my father who had the procedure in his teens after he developed a condition. He told me exactly what it was like. (My father is 88 and was born before circumcision was common.)
You can do almost anything to an infant and they won’t remember the trauma. Infants have been subjected to near-fatal child abuse, including having their femurs broken, and they don’t remember it. That doesn’t make it right.
Having your wisdom teeth removed takes at least a week of recovery and we do that in late teens or early twenties. There are lots of things that take a week to recover from, and having to have your foreskin removed because it’s causing issues is far, far more rare. That’s not a reason to take that choice away.
Like I said, they can always have that procedure later if they want to, but once it’s done, that choice is basically gone.
Also like I said, I’m not trying to make people feel bad for having done it when we didn’t really know better. I’m not shaming anyone. It’s just what we did until recently. Going forward, though, it’s not justified and we shouldn’t be advocating for it now that we know better.
eta: and Kellogg isn’t irrelevant. That’s exactly why the practice has been embedded in American culture, so when we’re talking about why we do it, he’s extremely relevant.
You are profoundly uninformed and clearly huffing copium to deal with the fact that you chose to mutilate your own newborn sons penis. Great work bro.
I trust the doctors over internet weirdos obsessed with kids penises.
Who’s more obsessed, those who leave well enough alone or those who perform drastic, unnecessary, life-altering surgery as soon as a baby enters the world?
Exactly. Babies can’t consent to have their bodies altered. Unless it is medically necessary, it should not be performed.
That’s not the criteria for making medical decisions for your child, though. You have a kid, you know this. We make decisions that might have lasting physical ramifications for them for years.
I believe in vaccines and vaccinated my kid, but if someone felt the risks of them were too high, we don’t call it child abuse. And if someone delayed vaccinations, that’s not child abuse either.
We can phrase things in extremes like abuse all day, but it doesn’t make it true. Injecting babies with modified hepatitis c in the first 12 hours of their life sounds like assaulting a child unless you know those words just mean they got a vaccine.
I think the reason people don’t give a shit about online circumcision protesting is because most of them are cringe sycophants, using the worst language possible to alter someone’s opinion on the issue.
Watch a video of a circumcision and get back to me. If it’s not necessary, it shouldn’t be done. When my son was born, circumcision shouldn’t have even been an option. The “cringe sycophants” are the religious and miseducated nurses that asked me if I wanted it done.
It is as safe as any similar procedure, and comes with inherent risk. There’s a reason people talk about “botched circumcisions” which do indeed happen.
The health benefits aren’t even a full percentage point difference. We are talking minuscule differences, and most of it is based on bad science. How can I know this? The studies were often done on grown adults, in third world countries. Disease is already rampant there, and considering rape is so prevalent in many of the areas that anti-rape condoms were created and distributed, there are no social barriers in place to prevent the spread of disease. And finally, they tested to see if there was disease spread almost immediately after the procedure had fully healed. Meaning the men who didn’t get circumcised had been fucking around for a much, much longer time than the circumcised men.
And FGM is a pretty good allegory. We are talking about Male Genital Mutilation, why wouldn’t Female Genital Mutilation be similar? Because it’s normalized in some first world countries? You’re removing double the nerve endings when you remove foreskin vs destroy the clit, I’d say they line up close enough.
Look at it this way, we all agree declawing cats is super safe and has health benefits. But it’s being outlawed all over the place because it’s barbaric. But we still cut baby dicks. It’s pretty fucked up.
There’s health benefits to removing the appendix and tonsils too - so why isn’t it done wholesale on every kid born?
Because it’s fucking barbaric chopping bits of you up without necessity.
On top of that as science has progressed - guess what? They think both the tonsils and appendix have a purpose. They’re important for immunity.
But there was never a fucking doubt that the foreskin has a purpose in human beings. So the removal of it for “health benefits” really is scraping the fucking barrel.
No. It’s not done because it’s invasive surgery. Like, are you for real?
Ask anyone who had their appendix rupture if they wish it could have been removed while they were barely aware of the world and had nothing else going on in their life.
There is strong evidence that it causes long term trauma. Just because you can’t remember something doesn’t mean it doesn’t have an effect on you. They literally strap you down, rip open the skin, and chop it off without any kind of pain management.
It is absolutely insane. Go watch the procedure on YouTube or something to understand what actually happens. Then take into consideration you’re likely seeing a “best case” outcome.
No. Everything you said is wrong or unproven. Just stop making shit up or floating around these bizarre internet cults.
Here is an article summarizing a number of sources, and providing the sources summarized: https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/moral-landscapes/201501/circumcision-s-psychological-damage
Same
Strong “my parents beat me and I turned out okay, so I beat my kids” vibes.
You’re comparing a one-time event to a childhood of trauma
They made a bad comparison, I agree. But a lot of things are “one-time events” that have lifelong implications. That’s a garbage argument.
Strong “I judge others for even disciplining their kids” vibes
Yeah, my parents didn’t do it, and I ended up getting phimosis in my early twenties and having to get it done then.
On the one hand I do appreciate that they left it up to me, but on the other hand it was intense pain for a couple of weeks and at the time I was really wishing that they had just gotten it out of the way.
For me, it’s a wash. That may or may not be typical but it’s probably slightly better that they left me the choice? Can’t put the foreskin back on the penis I guess.
My son was born with hypospadias, so I didn’t really have a choice with him. Had to get it done or he would be peeing out of the bottom of his dick forever, which saved me and my wife a difficult decision.
All of this said though, I personally prefer being circumcised. Cleaning is way way easier, and in my own personal experience I have a lot more sensitivity when doing anything fun with my hog. My partners have also preferred it, and some of them shared with me that they had previously gotten UTIs from uncircumcised partners.
Like I said, I appreciate that my parents left it up to me, but at the same time I think the genital mutilation trope is way overblown in the majority of cases. Not all of course.
For me, it’s a wash.
It’s certainly close enough that we shouldn’t be trying to butt into other people’s lives over it.
You should need a strong reason to have the state invade people’s lives. This ain’t it. I wouldn’t pierce my baby’s ears either, but I’m not looking to put anyone in prison over it.
Oh, so you’re good with female circumcision then? Since we shouldn’t be trying to butt into other people’s lives?…
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It should be an individual’s choice as to whether you chop off part of their dick, not society’s.
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Sorry. Didn’t realize you were uncircumcised.
What is foreskin if not part of your dick?
No you’re getting it wrong: you LOSE sensitivity because the head of your penis is getting direct stimulation all the time. Because of the resultant loss of sensitivity the expectation would be that you would take longer to finish.
But sex is a complex thing that involves a lot more than just the physical stimulation, so it’s not 1:1 with regards to speed. It IS howeve impactful for the pleasure of the person with the penis. It’s more intense and pleasurable for people that aren’t circumcised. Sex is obviously still great even if you are circumcised but it’s a little like being colorblind if you were circumcised at birth: you don’t really know what you’re missing so it’s kind of ok and not really bothersome for the majority.
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Though rare, some people have had to have the procedure done as an adult, so they know the difference.
It’s always “you lose sentivity”, “you don’t feel as good as me” and… well… how the fuck do they know? How the fuck do you know?
You know, some have had it done as adults
It’s a non-issue
Right to one’s own body and doing cosmetic or religious surgery on kids: non-issue
Lol
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Preconception is a powerful drug. There’s really no way you could have worded that in a way they wouldn’t get emotionally charged over. It’s just the simple fact they have a strong opposing view point so they’ll read something completely different so it makes sense with their thinking.
It was just an incredibly poor phrasing or word choice if they didn’t want to call it circumcision a non-issue. Happens.
What did you mean was a non-issue if you weren’t talking about the circumcision done on kids?
“I love my parents , even though they were too ignorant to think for themselves,” is how genital mutilation perpetuates. People need to be held accountable for not questioning inane rituals and traditions. Education, not mutilation.
Shut the fuck up, low quality clown. Education is me not doing this to my kids.
Please learn how to read.
It doesn’t read that way. It reads as ambivalence to circumcision. Maybe learn how to write.
“I don’t care”, followed by: “I won’t do that to my kids”
Clown: “ambivalent, learn how to write”.
Coupla corn dogs short of a circus, there.
I don’t really care.
ambivalence noun am·biv·a·lence am-ˈbi-və-lən(t)s 1 : simultaneous and contradictory attitudes or feelings (such as attraction and repulsion) toward an object, person, or action felt ambivalence toward his powerful father ambivalence toward marriage 2 a : continual fluctuation (as between one thing and its opposite) b : uncertainty as to which approach to follow ambivalence about their goals
I don’t care; sounds like ambivalence to me.
Dude… You’re acting like you’re a wrench short of a full toolbox. Obviously meant he doesn’t care that he personally was circumcised. But he does care enough that he won’t do it to his kids.
I.E. He’s accepted the fact that what happened was in the past and he can’t change it, so no use crying about it especially when it has not effected the use of his member in any negative way. But he can change what happens in the future for his kids by not doing that to them and letting them have a choice when they’re older.
If the guy was actually ambivalent he would just go along with continuing to allow his own kids to be circumcised and/or have no opinion of the procedure. Or he would dislike the procedure but allow it to happen anyways because of tradition or something.
Stop being obtuse and ignorant. Though having said that I now feel like you’ll come at me with the mathematical definition of obtuse to try and use petty semantics to make yourself feel better
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Words matter.
So glad that didn’t happen to me.
Me too, were the lucky ones
Mine only stayed uncut because there was a protest going on outside the hospital where I was born, where dudes were demanding their foreskins back lol
I am for one happy to be circumcised (i had a really awful, treatment resistant inflammation, circumcision on young people for no reason is shit)
I had the same experience. Circumcision made my life so much better.
I am not unhappy to be circumcised. Idk.
I’m not unhappy about being circumcised, but I’ll never know what it’s like to be uncircumcised, and I’m not not unhappy about that.
Triple negative, that’s a rare one
I love when this topic comes up because people definitely don’t have a weird fixation on foreskin and totally have balanced discussions that calmly hears both sides.
Not a fixation on foreskins but on personal freedoms and the right to choose what happens to your own body:
Are you an adult? Cut off what ever part of your body you want to. I don’t care.
Are you an adult who wants to cut of body parts from others? No. Stop it. Let them decided themselves when they are old enough.
I’m so glad it was done to me when I was a baby. 100% the proper way to do it.
If you intentionally do not recognize it as a legitimate medical procedure with lots of science backed behind it, then you’re purposefully spreading misinfo. That’s just a fact. Just like how some people in this thread are saying it reduces sexual pleasure, scientific evidence states this is not true. It’s also significantly safer and less risk when they’re a baby. These are just peer-reviewed objective facts that have been extensively tested and confirmed.
Haha the irony of you coming out so strongly after your original statement is gold.
it’s absolutely amazing. what a cockgoblin.
Not really, I’m open to seeing any evidence as to why the CDC is factually wrong.
“You know, I’m really tired of having to clean my nails and trim them. I know, I should just cut my fucking fingertips off. That way I don’t have to worry about pesky things like dirt or germs living under the nails!”
lol ‘facts’
Don’t ask me, I think we should just cut the whole thing off.
Hey, as long as you own what you’re cutting I’m cool
No. All of 'em. Americans do go far enough. Everyone should walk around with little nubs.
ignoring bodily autonomy and the right for your OWN CHILD to choose what their penis will look like for a medical procedure that only should be used when a phimosis diagnosis has been made or when you join specific religions (and not for “so he looks like dad” or “my religions imaginary friend collects foreskins of infants”)
When my son (2) was born there was decent pressure to circumcise, we were asked leading up to birth, before birth at hospital many times, and many times after.
I’m sure there’s plenty of single mothers who don’t know any better and just eventually agree. I’ve been told hospitals sell the cut off for woman’s make up stuff
I don’t know where you’re from, but in the US, hospitals are strictly forbidden from doing anything with biological material post-procedure except 1) biopsy, 2) disposing it in accordance with biohazard containment practices, or 3) limited instances of release to the patient (think kidney stone).
Nobody is selling infants foeskins for makeup. That’s fucking stupid conspiracy bullshit.
But do they charge for the procedure?
https://www.allohealth.care/healthfeed/sexual-anatomy/do-hospitals-sell-foreskin
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/hnzg5a/what_do_you_think_hospitals_do_with_foreskins/
Doesn’t seem like bullshit, however it is used for more than make up, like skin grafts and bio science. Apparently Oprah Famously said she uses a cream with foreskin in it
Ah, let’s see… An SEO article from a clinic in India about the possibilities of what can be done (with absolutely zero citations), a reddit thread and the Coup de Grace, Oprah, who famously gave us “Dr.” Oz. I’m gonna go ahead and not choose to give a bunch of credibility to those sources.
It’s kind of you to worry about the aesthetics of your child’s penis, which studies have shown that it improves body image and sexual satisfaction anyways. You should really leave the medical suggestions to the professionals. There’s so much anti-science in this thread going on, I’d assume that I was in a crazy 5G anti vax conspiracy bullshit forum. What is it about medical scientific evidence that makes people so upset? All I’m doing is repeating and sharing established medical studies after all, but apparently that makes people a little emotional. Kind of like vaccinations!
this is NOT about aesthetics. this is about robbing a child of a deeply personal choice.
Suppose we should just not name children until they’re old enough to choose their own name too. We’re talking about some fuckin skin on the tip of the dick lol. Most will never even know the difference until they go see it in a health class or Google what the differences even look like.
What are the pros and cons here again? The cons of the situation is that they might end up wanting some extra skin at the tip of the dick for whatever reason. The pros is health and self confidence improvement. The pros outweigh the cons here, it’s a no brainer. It’s a simple medical procedure has been factually proven to improve health and self confidence, and it’s by far the safest to perform on a new born.
This is the most idiotic thing I’ve ever read. They can change their name if they want to. How old they have to be is different from country to country.
Equating naming a child with cutting off stuff from their bodies is fucking stupid.
like @CurlyMoustache@lemmy.world said: names can be changed. and if your confidence is based on a mutilated sexual organ, then go cut yourself as much as you like, but leave others alone. don’t do something irreversible to someone without their consent.
i dont like my given birth name, i could legally change if it i please. In fact i don’t like the concept of legal names much at all, but thats a different story.
Lets throw in some similar cases here. Ear lobes, why not just chop those off at birth? They dangle around weirdly and are places to put jewelry. Which can cause injury.
Ever heard of scarification? It’s like a tattoo, but subtractive instead of additive.
You ever heard of penile subincision? You just yeet a massive slit into the bottom of the penis, that leads into the urethra.
Why not just do those things to children upon birth?
Multilating childrens genitals for appearance is pretty fucked up.
That choice should be left to themselves and no one else. Unless absolutely necessary of course.
The supposed benefits are very very small and the majority of the world is doing absolutely fine without removing the foreskin of children.
Maybe go back and read all the text you ignored about the other benefits. Would love to see you link any established peer-reviewed studies that can back up your neanderthal level reading comprehension.
I don’t give a fuck about those “benefits” which have miniscule impact and can absolutely be achieved by means other than cutting a baby’s foreskin.
Adults can cut their dick off if they want, surely a lot of men would do it if those benefits are so impressive.
Parents should not have the freedom to mutilate their babies because they say so. Only if a doctor recommends it because of an actual disease (phimosis or whatever).
That is basic ethics. Don’t make unneeded permanent choices for a baby. If it is a decision that can easily wait until the baby is an adult, it is evil to make it for them.
Honest question, did you read this study before you posted it? The sample size is 37 Turkish men who voluntarily applied for circumcision. Do you not find that sample to be extremely small? Don’t you think there would be some inherent bias when assessing the psychological effect in people who had chosen to undergo the procedure? If anything, this study reinforces that circumcision should be left to the individual to choose, rather than having the procedure done against their will as an infant.
That’s a study of 30 turkish dudes…
you’re an idiot and so is anyone that agrees to circumcision for an infant.
Very level headed statement after being shown evidence
lol ‘evidence’
I’ve been reading your comments, it’s amazing how someone can link an article to 37 grown men voluntarily circumcising themselves and use that as evidence towards why children would like to be circumcised.
You fucking dumb my guy.
Or a lobbyist for big foreskin.
That document is regarding the spread of STIs. There’s plenty of other methods to avoid those that don’t involve cutting part of your dick off.
Like washing?
Sure. As I said: adults can cut of anything they want. Babies cannot decide for themselves. It is immoral and barbaric to cut of parts from the bodies of babies.
Condoms gives insanely more protection than a circumcised penis. The health benefits are therefore just a fart in the wind and should not be used as a an argument for cutting people without their consent. Teach healthy sex practices in schools
Science is different than peer reviewed science. The STI study has some big problems (especially moral problems) - one practical problem though is the hiv test in the study isn’t accurate for some time (3 months I think) and that messes with their data and wasn’t accounted for properly (some test candidates definitely had HIV before the study). Another huge oversight was that a freshly cut man isn’t going to have sex for weeks while he heals, deceasing the chances of contracting HIV. Another sign that something is wrong is European countries that have less HIV than the USA. But even if it was guaranteed that you contact HIV 10% less often if circumcised, that’s still not even close to a good enough benefit to justify the procedure.
The “data” on why circumcision is beneficial is mostly just cut men trying to justify why they’re superior and is biased. The sensitivity being the same claims are silly. Studies done are controversial because measuring sensitivity is hard. A big red flag is reading testimants of adults who got cut - usually they say it was super painful while healing, then crazy sensitive, underwear was uncomfortable and they had trouble lasting during sex. But a couple years later and they’d lost sensitivity. Underwear feels fine, refactory period goes up. This is because of keratinization of the glans of the penis. Similar to a callous on skin tissue
Cum, I love how your replies are more than happy to pick apart your sources without providing any of their own. A casual scroll through the other comments will reveal that most people who weren’t circumcized at birth have issues with it or regret having to have the procedure done later in life.
There’s a reason the procedure is so ubiquitous for so long, the science and health research is there to prove it. Same way getting vaccines is mandatory in the US for going to school. Same way abortion would be if politicians didn’t keep getting involved in legitimate medical research. These procedures have been studied and peer reviewed for decades by experts, best leave it to them. https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/articles/2012/10/greater-benefits-of-infant-circumcision
If you want to have a real argument with myself and cum (lmao) bring your own sources and maybe other people will take you seriously.
Exactly, you get it lol. This is a funny topic because you can simply drop a fact sheet by medical professionals that all overwhelmingly agree on this topic, and then people will lose their mind. That’s why I’m only interested in looking for scientifically backed viewpoints instead of people getting so emotional. Reality disagrees with their traditions so they really hate it.
Findings from the University of Sydney suggest that around 38% of the male population globally is circumcised.
Circumcision is the exception. I’m sure the 60% of uncircumcised men across the world live tortured lives. Source
And?
And you’re profoundly misinformed
I think part of the problem with this discussion is that a lot of us who were circumcised without consent spend most of our early years thinking it’s normal and there is nothing to be upset about. So when people point out the practice is generally very harmful, it is upsetting. It can be hard to process at first, and I think, unfortunately, some people double down on traditional rationalizations as a defense mechanism.
That being said, I am not a fan of people referring to my genitalia as mutilated/mangled or to me as damaged. It is completely valid to be upset about having your foreskin removed without your consent, but I feel sometimes people veer a little too far in projecting their own hurt onto others. Many people live fulfilling lives with circumcised penises, and some even do it by choice, so, speaking strictly for myself, I generally am glass half-full about it.
Why is this a both sides thing? Circumcision is a Jewish rite that became a larger thing because of a couple mentions in the Christian New Testament. It also has some medical application for individuals with certain conditions.
Doing it to all male babies doesn’t make rational sense unless you are a specific type of religious.
While circumcision has been a Jewish tradition historically, it has come a long way since then. There are decades of medical research and studies that prove that it is a safe procedure for newborns and bring numerous benefits later in life. Please trust the science and not the religious rhetoric.
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I’m intact. I don’t have to wash my dick hard, just pull the foreskin and wash. If anything I wash it more gently because it’s more sensitive.
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I spend as much time washing my armpits as I do under my foreskin. Roll it back, quick lather and rinse, and done.
Even if I’m camping for days at a time, away from running water, a quick wipe down with plain water and a wash cloth keeps the smell and smegma away.
This is in my other comment: https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/articles/2012/10/greater-benefits-of-infant-circumcision
This mf both sidesing cutting baby dicks, smdh.
Seriously, why does this come up so often on Lemmy?
no one should mutilate a baby’s genitalia. I guess some people feel strongly about breaking the tradition.
Why are people so upset about cutting baby dicks wtf it’s up to the parents obviously?
IMO we should just go ahead and gauge his little ears too, dad has gauged ears, we want them to look the same.
Mom has full sleeve tattoos so we’re thinking maybe he’d look cool with some fresh ink too?
Just cut the dicks already! God, why is this a debate, cut the dicks and be happy about it. A baby is born, and you cut its dick. It’s tradition.
How else do you keep it from having to wash it and wear a condom. It won’t have to do any of that if you just cut its dick!
Perfectly normal, very chill. Slash that dick up asap or you’re just a weirdo. /s
Mine was at 16 because my foreskin stopped growing. I honestly would have preferred to have it done at birth before I could remember the pain (like my brothers).
Okay, but that’s not a good reason to make it standard practice.
Did I say it was?
The point is that there are exceptions and it’s not always “mutilation.”
Okay? I don’t think anyone was arguing against medically necessary stuff
an amputation, even for medical reasons, is a mutilation
Well, my anecdotal experience says otherwise. /s
I never learned to roll back my foreskin when I was a wee lad and so once when I was 8 it got infected and I had to apply ointment to it and keep gradually peeling it back from its swollen and cemented position like trying to squeeze a tennis ball out of a tight gym sock. it hurt to pee for a week. Still, Im glad to have my foreskin.
I’m uncircumcised and after fapping when my head is still exposed i cannot wear underwear or pants omfg it’s so fucking uncomfortable touching anything dry, IDK how circumcised people live, it’s like constant pain.
Same shit in the Philippines.
My poor penis.
I just wish they weren’t doing a 50% off special when I was born…
you know I don’t get with no wormies
-Francine Smith
Why is a child touching your circumcision scar?
