I don’t mind the kids being force fed the Bible. At least they’re getting something in their bellies.
This thread is a shitshow.
American democracy ends in a month if things go poorly. It’s done, over, gone. A Mein Kampf reader will no longer have any restraints, no adults at the table to say “no, that’s wrong” if he wins again.
DEMOCRACY. WILL. BE. OVER.
removed, whine, fuck you bringing this up in thread last 30 days, I live here. So do my fucking friends and family. I don’t want to see them or I put in camps to be “deported” for having the wrong skin color, lover, gender, or religion/lack thereof.
Fuck you, vote.
Time is a flat circle, except the cycle comes back around again every second. The same conversations over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. Had at such frequency, with such vitriol, it is totally indistinguishable from pure noise. It’s like a root canal for your brain.
Someone brings up wanting to not vote, on some principle. Could be Gaza, could be them not so slowly capitulating to the right on every issue since FDR got out of office, to the point that we’re now running george dubya 2 as president. Then someone says, ah, well, you should vote democrat anyways, because they’re better than republicans. Then we get one of two answers, we either get, ah, well, no they aren’t, or, they aren’t better on this one particular issue that I care about, so fuck it, right. Which is not a super convincing counterargument. Or, we get the real argument, we get the deeper dive into the actual political process, which we all collectively understand to be completely fucked as to basically be unrecoverable, and yet still, somehow, this is a source of constant disagreement. Usually because people who don’t know any alternative have deluded themselves into cynically caping for the same broken system as some form of what is basically escapism.
Ah, not in a swing state? You live in a population center? Seems like your vote doesn’t matter, better luck next time. Ahh, you don’t live in one of like, twelve counties in those swing states? Ahh, well, seems like your vote doesn’t matter, either, because of gerrymandering, so, sucks to suck for you. Ahh, well, guess the electorate decided to pick someone different than what you voted for, so, better luck next time. The democrats lost? Ahh, well, if only the left had turned up to vote. You just gotta vote, and then we’ll be granted such an overwhelming victory that we will be able to implement all of the milquetoast reforms you’ve ever wanted! The democrats win? Ahh, well, time to pull to the right twelve more degrees, since we’ve won the race, and now whatever the voters care about doesn’t fucking matter at all. The democrats win, but then the supreme court decides to veto the recount because the voting system in a single state was so totally and completely fucked? Ahh, well, looks like we gotta go kill a million fucking people in iraq for oil money, champ, sorry about that.
It’s especially fucking insane because the idea of voting for them in the first place is an acknowledgement that we live in a FPTP system where you cynically have to vote for the lesser evil. Every other qualification and quality that the system has, which makes it worse? That shit doesn’t exist. We’re taking the most simplified, common idiot stance, here. It is so insane that I struggle to think that it’s not just bad faith drudgery. Out of the 350 million, only like 5% of that are people who even approach mattering, and, as we also know, it’s kind of dubious even then. So, if those are the only people whose votes matter, and we all FUCKING know that, then why the hell am I inundated with constant removed and moaning and whining about how I just simple NEED to vote democrat or else nooo nooo we’re going to be plunged into literally a hitlerian dystopia like handmaid’s tail? Look around you, look at what is currently happening.
Oh no! Another democratic senator has decided to stand in opposition to this bill, narrowly swinging the votes around and keeping us deadlocked into an eternal hell where nothing except bipartisan things like border spending, foreign policy, spending on the military industrial complex, banning shit like tiktok, and the basic foundational elements of neoliberal economic policy ever get done. Whatever shall we do? Guess the answer is just to vote harder!
If the democrats did actually get an overwhelming victory, you wouldn’t get FDR again. They’ve been very clear about exactly what their policies are, and they’ve calculated that position as a way to push the buck as far in favor of their corporate sponsors and themselves as they can get away with, while both winning, and also presenting a constant war to the public where it’s a struggle to get anything done. The narrowest margin of victory is actually a boon, in that circumstance. It means they can both run on unpopular policy and they can make it look as though they’re trying to get things done and oops whoops they’re just narrowly failing. If they somehow got a massive win on that platform, probably through some absolutely massive unforced error by republicans. I don’t even know what that would look like, at this point. They would probably all have to collectively catch a disease and die simultaneously, and I think that would probably also spell chaos for the nation. You wouldn’t see the dems suddenly run to the left, after that, because the left would have basically no leverage over them, no bargaining power, no hand in their win. You especially wouldn’t see them drift to the left because THAT’S NOT WHAT THEY’RE FUCKING CAMPAIGNING ON. SO THAT CAN’T BE WHY THEY GOT ELECTED. The only way they would get that majority in the first place is basically through them moving to the left to begin with, which as previously described, they will never do, or, worse off, and what they are currently trying to happen, is if like, 40 - 50% of the population suddenly drifted super rightward and became neocons.
No democratic party politician is some secret communist that, ah, once they get an 80% majority, after enough election engineering, enough rightward drift, enough calculations that they can get into power unilaterally, then, suddenly then they’ll become a communist. The most you might see is that republicans, after losing so badly, might make a better run at implementation of actually populist policies, but then that’s kind of obviously a nonstarter for them because they’re ALSO owned by corporate entities and they’re ALSO doing this same exact gambit. The idea of getting a huge win somehow also relies on the utter delusion that you can outflank the republican party from the right, or, outflank them with your competence at right-wing policy. You could maybe outflank them in competence, but that’s both not a good thing, obviously, and it also wouldn’t matter to their core base of delusional evangelical suburban whites that have an outsized amount of voting power and oil money.
The reason some people think this, if they even do, and aren’t just assuming whatever cynical position they have to in order to push things around, is because they’re idealistic and totally delusional about the incentives the system naturally produces. How people in power go through many filters that all but guarantee they’ll be acting in their own self-interest by the time they reach the top. There’s no secret leftist that is going to reach a presidential level of power and then suddenly come down and save us all. I’d love to be proven wrong there, but it’s not fucking happening.
And you know what’s the worst about all this shit? Every election cycle, every single time, at the one time when there is the most political interest flaring up in the population, we are met with this fucking insanely dumb conversation that we have over and over and over and over and over again. It eats up space that could otherwise be reserved for actual serious conversations about strategic voting, how to look into local policies and politicians and how to vote for them, where those resources are, how to organize, how to gain political leverage, how to unionize your workplace, how to stage a protest, participate in a protest, when a protest should even be done and what amount of political leverage such an act might buy you. None of that ever gets talked about. Instead we need like a year out of every four where the only political conversations anyone is capable of having is this repetitive overly simplified bullshit. This ideological poison which totally stymies any serious dialogue. And then turn around and wonder why nobody except the dumbest and most aggressive sacks of shit on the planet, that are obviously just taking out their anger issues actually want to talk to you about this shit, sacks of shit like me. It’s insane. I don’t understand how we keep falling down the stairs. I don’t understand how this keeps happening.
Actual analyses done on this topic by Pew, Breugel, and National Affairs suggest this effect is largely not true. When considering the entire electorate, a significant number of non-voters lean Republican or are politically unaffiliated and would not support the democratic party.
Further research indicates that, despite popular belief, higher voter turnout does not consistently benefit either party across the board. Over the past 70 years, there has been no strong correlation between increases in turnout and the Democratic vote share in presidential or midterm elections. This suggests that while higher turnout could marginally favor Democrats, it might not drastically alter outcomes.
Democrats could gain some advantage from 100% turnout due to the inclusion of historically underrepresented groups, but the overall impact would likely be less substantial than expected, as the partisan balance among non-voters is more evenly distributed than commonly thought.
The notion that 100% voter turnout would deliver sweeping political control for Democrats is just a comforting illusion—one that feeds into the fantasy that everyone secretly agrees with you. Both parties indulge in this kind of wishful thinking, convinced that non-voters would tip the scales in their favor if only they showed up.
The truth is that America is fiercely divided, and non-voters are just as politically varied as regular voters. Believing otherwise is just a way to avoid confronting how split the country really is.
Also, popular opinion tends to shift to the right when times are tough and times are tough. You can see this happening in Europe as well, every European country.
Sources please
The government keeps fucking everyone but the democrats blame the republicans for it, and the republicans the democrats for it, not realizing they are talking about the exact same group of people.
I’m shocked either party can maintain the illusion at this point but thats just my perspective.
If you don’t see a difference between the current political parties, that seems like a you problem.
That’s a strawman argument. Pointing out that one of them is worse than the other ignores the real problem - the system is broken.
It’s not really a strawman argument, it’s closer to an ad hominem. In fact, the argument you are making is closer to a strawman.
“A straw man fallacy is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion, while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction.” -Wikipedia
Saying that “if you can’t tell the difference between the two parties is a you problem” is attacking the person not the issue. Saying that the difference between the two parties isn’t the problem (when that’s what is being argued) and instead it’s the system is by definition a strawman. Using the strawman to make the discussion about the futility of voting in a flawed system just goes to show how much of a strawman it is.
Where meme?
These new Star Wars films are wild.
I’m voting Democrat like I always do. I remember being the only non-right wing senior citizen looking person at my polling place for Hilary Clinton when no one showed up. Not with any hope, just so I can say I voted against gleeful hatred.
I’m just pissed that I will never, ever get a vote against market capitalism, as it controls both parties on economic policy and we only get a vote on how to manage the social issue symptoms it causes.
If you keep the left in power your can steer them left, if the right gets in power you reset your progress to 0
Could you walk me through steering them left when they’re in power? Over the years the democrats seem to only get more right wing. The thing is, I always thought that you steer politicians through your vote, and if I guarantee my vote to you regardless of what you have done in the past or are currently doing, what incentive do you have to change course in a way that I like?
The actual incentive that they have should ideally be actual political activism that exercises some real and material form of leverage against their power. Seeing as these movements have all been totally deconstructed, mostly by the federal government, instead, you’ll find that the way you’re supposed to change the party is just by voting harder for them, and then just kind of hoping that they somehow naturally decide to swing left, after you’ve already handed them the keys to the kingdom. It’s pure cope, basically.
It works the same way the Republicans have been steered further right while not in power. When Democrats have to worry about moderates, they move to the right. If they only have to worry about liberals, they can support and back more progressive positions. If they don’t, they are more likely to be primaried.
See also: the Tea Party takeover of the GOP which pushed them further down the path to the current fascism.
There’s a lot of this assumption that democrats get more votes by going for moderates. Meanwhile they’ve alienated the entire left, and (I know, not a representative sample) but my Lemmy feed is jam packed with arguments about “you have to vote blue to stop fascism” vs “I really don’t don’t want to vote in favor of genocide”. No one seems to actually like the democrats, they’re whole appeal is basically “not fascist”.
Bernie Sanders got people excited, and while not exactly a leftist, he did represent a move toward the left. But they couldn’t let Bernie happen, he was too radical, apparently. You’ve heard the term “Bernie bro”, but where are the Biden bros? They aren’t, because Joe is boring.
So I don’t think they “have to worry about moderates”. The post here claims that if they could motivate people to go vote, they’d win. So offer something fresh. Present a real alternative to the inexorable right wing decline of all of US politics. Do you not think that would work? Why are they 0% willing to consider it?
Adding that both things need to happen for the country to reverse the rightward shift. More liberals need to vote, AND the party needs to recognize, or be shown in primary elections, that they can publicly embrace more liberal stances. On or the other and we wind up with the status quo.
You’re not at all wrong, except democrats absolutely do have to worry about moderates at the moment. A large portion of the GOP base is retired people who definitely will vote. After that are Trump diehards who also definitely will vote. Look at the last election. Biden is about as centrist as they come, and Trump still racked up record breaking support at the polls!
You’re right that Bernie whipped up a lot of excitement, but he also lost that primary. And others who have tried to do something similar (like Beto) have also come up short.
I think someone else said this, or maybe it was a comment on another post, but republicans took over 40-years to shift the country right and overturn Roe. Countering that won’t happen overnight, and probably has the best chance at succeeding if it’s done within the current political landscape.
The criticism of the democrats is that they think they are on the left but they aren’t. They do represent a lot of Americans, but they don’t represent the true left very well at all.
You’re absolutely right about the current Democratic Party, but that party’s been pulled to the right by moderates and former moderate republicans. If the country really is more liberal than our representation would indicate, as put forth by the meme, then a more progressive voting populace will eventually result in more progressive liberal party. Right now everything is skewed to the right because of the oversized influence of moderates and moderate conservatives who don’t want to vote for fascism.
The thing is, I always thought that you steer politicians through your vote
To some extent, yes. However the amount of steering you can do this way is rather limited, since a vote only indicates a preference of one candidate over the other.
For example, if you decide to vote Republican out of protest, Democrats might conclude that you like republican policies, and to win your vote back, they need to move even further right. If you decide to stay home and not vote, you don’t really give any information to democrats what they actually need to do. They may decide that you are an unlikely voter in any case, and focus towards those folks most likely to turn out (that’s generally older white conservative folks).
One option is to vote for some leftist third party. This sends a pretty clear message about what policies you like. The problem is that, apart from the messaging, your vote is almost certainly wasted. You are in effect helping your enemy win in the short term.
The other option is to engage politically outside of just voting. Most people have been convinced by establishment politicians that your only influence is your vote. This is not true. Protests, activism, grassroots movements, local politics are all effective ways to steer your preferred party in your preferred direction. This does require substantially more effort.
Why are we so preoccupied with ensuring the party we hate most loses, rather than focusing on the party you want most winning.
I’d rather everyone vote closest to their actual morals and values, and give no consideration to who loses.
If we keep fighting over who’s the biggest loser, how can we possibly expect things to improve?
What you’re talking about is idealism. In a perfect world you would be correct. In a perfect world the US could have affordable and efficient mass transit within a few years. In a perfect world we could end climate change in just a few years. When your argument is based on a state of the world that doesn’t exist the point of the argument is immediately useless.
This is the problem with the anti-work movement, the anti-car movement, and people who are anti-single family homes. The arguments they make are theoretically possible, but getting enough people to move in tandem to that is just never going to happen so belaboring the point over and over is just not helpful.
We live in a world where the US has 2 political parties, if one wins we get a beige moderate government, if the other wins we get Project 2025. If your idealism makes it so hard for you to determine which outcome you want then literally nothing can be done for you. If you have the idea that letting the republicans win so that then a true progressive party can exist then you need to look at history because right wing dictators historically kill the idealistic liberals and progressives right behind the Jews, POC, and homosexuals.
When the Republicans win, the Democrats hear “move right”. It’s as simple as that.
And also when the democrats win, if you look at the way policy has evolved during the clinton years, during the obama years, and also now during the biden years.
The Dems seek out the people who actually vote.
If the Left stays home every election, the Dems have no reason to listen to them.
Clearly they’ll just voter shame and we’ll end up exactly where we are. I’d argue the reason we are where we are is exactly that reason.
I think all the third party voter shaming is actually for the democrat population. Its a warning of how you will be treated if you defect. Churches and cults do stuff like this in some cases, also to preempt members leaving.
I was never his biggest fan, but New York Mayor Ed Koch did say something I liked.
“If you agree with me 51% then you should vote for me. If you agree with me 100% you should see a psychiatrist.”
The Dems need all 3 of presidency, house of reps, and Senate to do anything. And they’ve only had that for 4 of the last 24 years. Or 6 of the last 32 years. Or 6 of the last 44 years. That’s why they keep going to the center to find voters, because they need all 3 and basically never get it. So how do you get them to go left? By giving them consistent and overwhelming victories.
You realize this all happened with Gore and Bush, and then Obama and Hilary and so on. The story has been the same every time. End of a democracy, republicans will destroy the country, blah blah blah.
You know what else happens? The democrats talk a huge game before the election, and do fuck all with it while in office. Even if you take something like obamacare, it wouldnt have gotten passed if there wasnt money in it for the wealthy.
And just the non stop war crimes and global terrorism. You know its literally been my whole life that this country has done this and its never mattered who was in office. Military expansion in this day and age is absurd, and its harder and harder to hide the truth that most of our wealth is stolen.
Its like a mafia family that can’t hide that their protection racket is actually what’s causing the danger in the first place. Apparently we don’t need a godfather sequel because its here in real life on a national scale.
0 what? 0 A.D.?
Resetting to 0 is a best case scenario for Republicans regaining control
Forgive my ignorance please, I’m not an american. I see these posts often on reddit and lemmy, but shouldn’t these posts be displayed on tiktok, billboards, or anywhere that those poeple who don’t vote frequent? Is there any stat at all to show whether such posts work?
shouldn’t these posts be displayed on tiktok, billboards, or anywhere that those poeple who don’t vote frequent?
No. This is all just preaching to the choir for karma.
There is no karma on Lemmy
Yes there is. It’s just more self gratifying and less purposeful though.
People still vote based on “in-group” logic and moral opinions whether comments add to discussions or not. People still act superior on here for feeling they have support when getting upvotes.
I think it’s actually mostly a product of the overton window kind of being split, but, not really split in the ways that you might think. It’s not so much that each party is getting more extreme in what their actual beliefs are, it’s just that people are getting more extreme in their rhetoric, more extreme in their isolation. This, if anything, encourages people they disagree with not to vote. You need only look beneath these kinds of posts to see the sheer amount of people that chirp up, disagree at any time, and then totally fail to be convinced.
No, much like underpantsweevil said, this is purely something that’s for the in-group, to make them feel good, to make them feel like they’re doing something productive, and more than any of that, it’s a way for them to work out ideological insecurities and reinforce pre-existing beliefs. Which further feeds into that rhetorical isolation. Keep that running for 30 years online (maybe more like 10 if you’re just considering web 2.0), and you shake out to about where we are now. Continue this for another 10 or 20 years and you’re probably directly headed for some absolutely heinous shit as the gulf gets wider and wider.
Pay no attention to them, they want people to vote for someone who supports genocide. They know they’re losing so they’re doing everything and anything they can right now, just tune them out.
So your solution is to let Trump win and make everyone but the rich pay for that genocide, probably destroy us democracy, while all this will change nothing for Palestine ?
Dude there are 2 options in the us both support genocide just one of them wants to deport every immigrant and put in a ton of awful policies And genuinely is a threat to democracy pick the better option and vote
There’s no point arguing with MAGA about who to vote for. Just point, laugh, and move on. It’s the 11th hour. They’re not going to stop now.
True
one of them wants to deport every immigrant
They both deport the same amounts of immigrants: https://ohss.dhs.gov/topics/immigration/yearbook/2019/table39 Obama deported more than Trump
a threat to democracy
You just admitted that you don’t have democracy two seconds ago. You can’t say “I have no choice but to let my rulers commit genocide in my name” and two seconds later say “We have a democracy worth defending”
Have you not heard their new plans for deportation its going to be wayyy worse than he was when he was in office.
At least there are 2 shitty options versus none
The democrats have also drifted rightward on deportation in this election, saying that they’ll be harder on the border than trump was in 2016, which, again, they already had been doing. The cost benefit here is an argument over whether or not one or the other will be like, 5% worse, and some of us, like you’ve just been sent evidence for in the previous comment, aren’t even convinced that the democrats will be any better.
Perhaps there is a third approach here, yes? Perhaps there is something in the specifics of this lack of actual, tangible democracy that exists for people, that means your specific vote is mostly meaningless anyways, which means it’s freed up to be thrown at some third party candidate, yes? Do you live in a swing state? Do you live in a gerrymandered swing district in one of said swing states? Do you live in a state where your electoral college candidate has to obey your vote? If the answer to any of those was no, then congrats, you basically have free reign to vote for whoever actually aligns closest to your beliefs, because your vote doesn’t actually matter.
Bullshit. Your vote matters. It might not impact you local election but the more obviously backward the electoral college looks the more likely someone will throw it in the trash like they should have decades ago.
Do you have any actual argument other than just saying “Bullshit. your vote matters.” though? Anything more to back that up, with a basis in how the system actually functions? Do you think the democrats will legitimately provide a challenge to FPTP voting? To the electoral college? Do you think the republicans will? How would that get overturned, what would that actually look like?
A LOT of the time spent being an adult is about making choices where only bad ones are available. You don’t have to like one or the other but you have to be grown enough to recognize the difference between an orange hippo flinging shit around and someone who you can trust won’t be taking an actual shit at the table during a meeting with heads of state
You start with mentioning choices where only bad ones are available, and then go on do reduce this one to two choices. Thats where the disconnect is. There are many choices, there were literally half a dozen on my ballot.
Politics won’t change until we vote for it, and splitting between the two main parties and casting your vote against the one you hate most isnt working, clearly.
People need to be aware that just because people shout that there are only two choices does not make it true. In fact, I’d argue you should always be wary of what an angry internet mob is shouting on every single post related to politics.
Love seeing bullshit like this downvoted. It goes to show how common sense and an adherence to reality can effectively stand up against propagandist bullshit.
Both support genocide, it’s not just the democrats.
I remember when dems had the presidency and both houses and did nothing stated here.
Manchin and Sinema don’t count. Fuck them.
I think they mean Obama’s first 2 years
That’s more complicated than a simple meme. If you have a party with 1/4 far left, 1/2 moderately left, and 1/4 basically moderate conservatives, it doesn’t matter that you have a majority, those moderate conservatives will still hold up any progress, but that’s not the fault of the other 3/4 of the party.
So what are people voting blue for exactly?
So they can feel like they’ve done their civic duty without actually effecting any meaningful change.
To negate the DINO’s
They need all 3 for more than 4 out of every 24 fucking years.
“I’m not going to vote because democrats aren’t communist which makes them basically republicans” - average Lemmy.ml user
Jk it’s actually something more like “I’m not going to vote because I’m European”
Eastern European specifically.
Even more specific?
As east as you can get in Europe :)
Do you not think genocide is a good reason to not vote for someone else? As far as red lines go, that’s a pretty good one.
it is more like genocide vs genocide + whole bunch of other human rights violations.
if you are not planning to overthrow the government by revolution then there is no way to go from these two options to an “ideologically perfect” (whatever that means) government in just one election cycle, needs to be done in smaller steps.
Withholding your vote until genocide is taken off the table pressures her to give in to their demands, though. There’s no universal constant saying we need to have a genocide. Either she loves genocide, or she’s supporting it because she’s worried she won’t get the votes without it. If it’s the second one, and I hope it is, then the Uncommitted movement is simply doing the same thing to establish their own power, and for a better reason: to save the lives of their friends, family, aid workers, doctors, and journalists.
so late into the elections it will only increase chances of Trump winning and will not convince her to change stance.
the risk of this is that you move even further away from your goals, practically to a place where it is impossible to do anything about genocide (since core supporters of Trump wont give a shit about and Trump himself for sure will be where money and strongest lobbies are).
this plan only makes sense if your perspective is “by diverting votes we let Trump win, everything goes to hell and then there is some sort of reform/revolution after he fucks up everything”. But given that maybe %30 of the country is still big time Trump supporters, we are likely looking at a civil war in that case.
You’re never going to be able to convince a lot of people to accept a genocide of their own people. It’s just not possible for some and I don’t blame them. A lot of Americans have never been attacked at home so they don’t understand. It’s a gamble the Administration is doing to keep up their rabid cheerleading of the Nazi-like side. Hopefully it doesn’t blow back on them.
what if realistically speaking the only current choice is between even a worse situation in middle east vs maybe slightly better than the status quo? I know it sucks but without changing how the elections in US works, you are not going to go from democrats vs republicans to a progressive major party in one election. In one election your only chance is to get slightly closer to it or quite further away.
Nah, holding your vote appears to be you just being another unmotivated democratic voter without regard to why. No one gets polled on why they didn’t vote 4 years prior. At best Harris barely wins and at worst Trump takes office and you get 4 years of genocide + Ukrainian subjugation + subjugation of women, minorities, and immigrants at home.
Kind of a no-brainer that you should vote for Harris here.
Okay thats all nice and such but you don’t vote for who you want to lose you vote for who matches your values. If people are so anti-genocide, should be very easy for a third party who is anti-war to win, if people voted for their values.
Its true it won’t happen in one election, I think even if the democrats win this year that they had a lot more pressure from groups they hadn’t before, and they were loud and clear and well represented.
I’m still concerned there will just be trump 2.0 next election and the democrats will continue moving towards the right as they go, and just continue this lose lose schoolyard fighting nonsense.
No, if it was a no-brainer, the no-brained idiot you’re responding to would already understand this.
Not if it’s withheld as part of a wider movement or given to a third party. That’s why it’s being paired with protests and other campaigns letting them know what they have to do to get their vote back.
Harris barely winning but losing something like Michigan to spook her into actually doing something material to stop supporting Israel is probably my preferred scenario right now, but she already said no arms embargo is on the table and after an election she’s not really beholden to voters anymore, so doubt that will help, either.
“barely winning” is a dangerous game to play when the consequences of losing is getting much much much further away from your stated goals. if anything it is impossible to push Trump to an anti weapon sale stance (since his core supporters don’t care and Trump is where money and strongest lobbies will be) than Kamala whose core supporters actually care but are turning the other way for now due to the fear of losing to Trump.
Supporting a genocide is a dangerous game as well, not only politically but physically, to at this point hundreds of thousands of people. Millions have been displaced from their homes. Not everyone can just ignore it so easily.
For me it’s the genocide.
So you’re gonna do nothing about it. Cool.
Both sides support Israel, one side has advocated and has vocal members who advocate against the genocide. The other side is for the genocide and thinks they should go further.
But you’re right, both sides, etc etc, Sit out.
Who says I’m doing nothing about it? All you know about it is that I refuse to vote in favor of genocidal regimes. Besides, refusing to vote for someone who’s actively committing a genocide is doing something. It’s exercising your right to vote in a meaningful way by showing that there are lines you do not cross. I wouldn’t vote for Hitler when that was an option, and I won’t vote for Harris (or Trump) now.
Make sure to pat yourself on the back for doing something when the christofascists take over, applaud Israels “tough” stance on “terrorism”, and kill or chase out every Palestinian that doesn’t lick IDF boots and ask for seconds.
And you are so sure thats not happening now? How exactly could trump accelerate any of that. Israel literally does what it wants. It doesnt give two shits.
At least bring up the right ally we would be screwing over which is Ukraine, but oh look the democrats are fucking them over too. Interesting that.
While it may be said that Trump is not necessarily the most Israel friendly president, he is undoubtedly the most Netanyahu friendly president (the leader of the Israeli regime perpetuating the genocide in Gaza and the West Bank).
Trump brags he gave Israel the Golan Heights, part of Syria that Israel has been occupying for decades, by formally recognizing Israeli sovereignty over it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_recognition_of_the_Golan_Heights_as_part_of_Israel
Trump recognized Jerusalem as the capital is Israel and moved its embassy there from Tel Aviv. The status of Jerusalem is considered a key part of Israel-Palestine negotiations.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_recognition_of_Jerusalem_as_capital_of_Israel
Trump’s son in law, Jared Kushner, mentions that Israel should remove the civilian population in Gaza and clean it up, stating it would be valuable waterfront property.
Trump killed the “Iran Nuclear Deal”, which was vehemently opposed by Netanyahu. When Netanyahu spoke in front of congress opposing the deal in 2015 he was invited by a Republican and Democrats walked out of his speech in protest.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_withdrawal_from_the_Joint_Comprehensive_Plan_of_Action
Politicians that criticise Israel, or even want conditions on their “military aid”, risk being targeted by the pro-Israel groups. Jamal Bowman had his position more or less publically butchered to set an example and warn others not to oppose Israel. While some others survived massive spending against them by the pro-Israel lobby, AIPAC and other groups are effective in making sure most politicians avoid thr topic of Israel, at least publicly.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/20/nyregion/aipac-bowman-latimer.html
Netanyahu was clearly displeased with his meeting with Harris. His repeated escalation of violence is increasing tensions in the Middle East and angering a large subset of the US Democratic base. More and more people are under the impression that he is trying to harm the Democratic ticket and/or lock the US in conflict so that, of Democrats still win the presidency, they will have no choice but to continue to back Israel and Netanyahu’s regime.
But you haven’t considered the fact that the people you’re talking to are arguing in bad faith
But I thought Russians were voting in us elections? 🤔
kids are force fed the bible
Well that can’t be true
Republicans are strongly against feeding children after allBuy our new Trump Bible Mk.39! This new edition features pages made out of pork rinds so your constituents can taste the word of our lord!
Our voter turnout is shameful. And oh man, the primary elections turnout… (Chefs kiss) Abysmal.
I agree wry everything you said, except please don’t say “chef’s kiss”.
Here’s the chef from the muppets to get rid of my shudder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UerBCXHKJ5s
force fed the bible.
Dude…I was talking to my 5yo today. They’ve learned the pledge of allegiance in kindergarten.
He recited it, perfectly, verbatim.
I cringed slightly at the “under God” part, as I’m a devout atheist (though we’ve barely mentioned religion at all to the kids).
Once he was done I asked him if he knows what any of it means.
“No. But I can say the whole thing!”
Smh.
I cringed at the part “pledge of allegiance” and then again at “kindergarten”.
Americans don’t realise how north Korea style that is.
Oh we do. We often recognize it while still in school. But you learn quickly you are not allowed to question it. If you don’t follow orders, you will be disciplined.
Land of the free, eh?
Couple of years back i stumbled over this video, which i as a german think is absolutely fucked up: https://youtu.be/DjX7zoFrd7g?si=6BtMIxqTxtdAYHvi
Quote from the Wiki about the “Young Marines”
The creed that every Young Marine lives by is:
- Obey my parents and all others in charge of me whether young or old.
- Keep myself neat at all times without other people telling me to.
- Keep myself clean in mind by attending the church of my faith.
- Keep my mind alert to learn in school, at home, or at play.
- Remember that having self-discipline will enable me to control my body and mind in case of an emergency.
Its absolute insane what they do to this kids: https://www.instagram.com/means_tv/reel/C7T93trOtg3/
Fellow german here, if you want even worse ick, look for “Jesus Camp” on YouTube.
Two “patriots” mad at fact so far.
Meanwhile my 3yo stepdaughter in kindergarten spends the day painting with watercolors, singing, dancing, playing with others and apparently learning common courtesy (The other day she told me that in kindergarten they’re supposed to say “please” when asking for something).
Much as I’ve wanted to move to the US for the significantly higher salary ceiling as a software engineer, I don’t think I could do it to her.
Well, the much higher salary ceiling might look nice on paper, but let me tell you from experience that it is eaten up quickly by higher cost of living. I have been fortunate enough to work for short (one to three year) stints in the US, most of that in the SF bay area. A few years after returning (more or less for good) to my EU home country where I now have a government job (which does not pay as well as industry jobs), one of my former SF bosses asked how much he’d need to pay me in order for me to come work for him long term. It was quite tempting, and I did the math back and forth and in the end arrived at 2.5x of what I’m making now, and that is on the low end. I have a few colleagues and friends in similar situations, and the 2x-3x figure is what we generally agree on. Between health insurance, child care, retirement savings and housing, your cost will be dramatically higher than in most EU countries, and this does not factor in differences in Labor rights and potential visa issues.
The SF bay area of course is extreme, but a low six figure salary puts you just above the poverty line there (so people say). Working remotely living in some low COL state might be an option, but then again you will live in East armpit nowhere Kansas…
Low six figures is easily 3x what I make in my home country. FAANG salaries would be nearly 10x and I don’t even mean senior positions.
Kids do all that in us schools, too. It’s not a monolith, but all those things are pretty standard.
I was, um, gently informed by a teacher once that you can say the pledge without “under God” and it sounds natural as it was originally intended. This blew my mind as a young atheist and made me realize how pervasive religion is.
I would consider the daily fascist flag ritual the pervasive thing here. If someone wants to swear by his faith that seems much smaller of an issue to me.
Incidently it seems fascist nationalism and other totalitarian political ideologies to have been at odds with religion in their times and places. See Hitler and Stalins regimes as examples.
Or you could just not talk to multicolored cloth
Is this a reference?
Reminds me of when I had to have a meeting with the school about some additional speech therapy for my daughter. It was in the morning and cut to the Canadian Anthem playing. Everyone stopped what they were doing and stood up for the anthem. Fucking weirded the shit out of me. I’m 47 and born and raised Canadian. Standing or reciting anything blindly as a group is fucking weird.
Freedom and democracy my ass.
Drag thinks you should explain that children shouldn’t say things they don’t understand.
I like it when drag talks about themself in the third person.
Thank you, but drag actually has person independent pronouns. Drag is talking about dragself in the first person. And drag’s pronouns work the same way when someone else is talking about drag, no matter if it’s second or third person.
That’s right reader. YOU are responsible for this nightmare. If only you
recycled your plastics more,used a non plastic straw, shouted at your peers to vote, you could have prevented this hell hole. So hold yourself personally responsible and then push that anxiety and stress onto others without any nuance. Cause if you can prove your moral goodness maybe the world might be heaven without any work other than checking a box.This is not really at all accurate math and it won’t change the people happily voting the other way. Or the Electoral College. Or the ridiculous amount of bribes, corruption and party politics.
I hate this photo for so many reasons and I also think voting should be a mandatory holiday. I just refuse to pretend that this idea that it would fix everything because you yelled at enough people to
pray harder, vote more.Don’t believe the naysayers. No matter which state you are in, your vote is important. Extreme Conservatives have been taking over school boards and imposing their agenda on kids.
Offices like Sheriff, Coroner, Secretary of State, Lt Governor, State Representatives, City and County Councils etc. are all important.
Every Vote Counts!!!
Edit: Many important local races will be decided by less votes than updoots I received for this comment.
Offices like Sheriff, Coroner, Secretary of State, Lt Governor, State Representatives, City and County Councils etc. are all important.
Not only are they important, it’s exactly how the freaks running the GOP took control of the party. They’ve been grinding 2 things consistently for decades: down ballot races and the judiciary. It’s been wildly successful for them. We are going to have to match if not duplicate that effort.
The shittiest part though is how many of those crazies are running unopposed.
